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You think derampers are bad, but it's the rampers you need to be afraid of.
It's like that old song by pink floyd. You think the dogs are your enemies, but it's the pigs running the farm.
Your right brainwashed idiots when did you sell your shares at a loss
Mr_Big your first response here made me literally lol, thanks for that! And I take your point - I won't take any legal advice I read here without a dollop of salt, but it's still interesting to read people's thoughts on the matter.
Docdaneeka - why is it suspicious? I "jump on at the weekend" because guess what, that's when I have free time, and this share just recently caught my eye. I "start 2 guaranteed punch up threads" because I'm hoping to understand some of the thorny issues that are extremely pertinent to making an investment in this share. As the responses to the threads show, opinions are still divided, and seeing the different opinions and justifications for them has actually been helpful for me.
It winds me up no end that anyone asking valid questions about a company / investment thesis gets immediately shouted down by the masses.
If your point is that these questions have alreay been asked and answered on this forum, then fair enough - unfortunately LSE doesn't have a good search functionality to go back through old threads to try to find interesting information. But actually, the investment thesis here depends heavily on the pandemic, which is a fast moving situation, so revisitng "answered" questions can still be helpful. And if this forum isn't about answering these questions as they come up, then what is it for exactly? Copy-pasting RNSs and talking into an echo chamber??
The phase 3 trials will answer that Ghia, for and sng and all the others.
Scinv - you keep bleating on about this yet we have an approved patent and we have good data.
So obviously SNG are doing something right that others are not.
Except were not the first ones to try inhaled ifnb on covid or any other virus. What you should be asking is why there aren't even more trying to do the same.
Org?
Mr Big I generally enjoy reading your take on things as it keeps complacency at bay.
Much more interesting than the self appointed ‘T Cells’ who attack anything which doesn’t proclaim RM could probably walk on water.
However if there are a host of global attempts to follow The Interferon route isn’t ‘Imitation the Best Form of Flattery?’
I love hearing about others seeing the potential of this as it tends to support the hypothesis that SNG, the brand leader will be a success ? Maybe.
That was for big, I imagine he has at least one 'big whoosh' experience every day.
What people forget is
First you’ve got to create your medical treatment
Then you’ve got to get it tested
Then approved
Synairgen are 90% of the way there and they’ve got an already accepted patent.
If you want to enter a marathon when the leaders are already in the final 100m go for it but don’t expect to be on the winner’s podium
That'll be what's known, in more ways than one, a big whoosh.
Just ignore this post, full of sore losers.
Ghia - you are a well-informed investor and have a reasonable and more balanced view most of the times.
It's the ramping cult that I have a problem with.
Ahaha. Why £50bn? Make it £69bn - a £bn per every data point ritchie managed to collect so far.
Mrbig, you've managed a looney tunes theories if sng works but ironically your brain doesn't seem big enough to follow it through to looney tunes theories like France buying the right to manufacture, for use in France only, for £50billion and then every other country doing the same.
You see anyone can make a looney story up, and some nutters actually believe the stories.
Watch those chemtrails increase over the next 2 years, they're coming to get you biggy.
Mr Big - there is a selection of IP in play some of it is pending some of it is already approved and has been for a long time.
When a poster shows up and questions if a patent will get approval and gives two reasons, is it not right that we politely point out that the company has an approved patent already that makes the same claims that they where point out.
Namely IFN and nebulisation.
No one is claiming that the IP is bullet proof but it at least serves the purpose of making any competitors go the long way round and develop their own formulation and gather their own trial data.
Tommy - a blinkered cult-infested gambler forum is a wrong place to ask about complex legal issues.
There is currently a patent pending (approved?), however, personally, I am not 100% sure how far it can reach.
E.g.
Case 1: The French rip off the SNG juice formula and start making and selling it much cheaper than SNG. This looks like an outright patent violation, but even in a "clear-cut" case like this, does SNG have the funds to take on the French/EU Government? If the EU benefits greatly from it, the whole thing might become political very quickly.
Also, imagine SNG's publicity if they are taking another company to court to stop them saving lives, because by saving lives they are taking a few quid off the SNG's P&L bottom line.
Case 2: France (or Argentina) develop their own formula that works almost as well and start making and selling it at a fraction of SNG's pie-in-the-sky £3k per treatment. SNG can only produce 50k treatments a month, all of them going to the UK and US, so the French are not cutting into SNG sales. Can SNG claim damages when they are not actually suffering any direct financial loss from it (i.e. SNG's sales of 50k treatments a month are still 50k and only limited by the manufacturing capacity.
Afaik, if there's no loss, there's no case but wtfdik.
Also, publicity again. SNG can't produce enough juice and don't want anyone else producing more to save lives.
Case 3: I wouldn't be surprised if more than half of the world's population is in countries that don't care much for SNG's IP and will be making knock-off Chinairgen copies anyway. Then the UK governement will buy Chinairgen instead because it's cheaper - just like they did with covid tests.
Anyone telling you SNG IP is completely, 100% risk-free is a brainwashed idiot.
PS All of the above assumes that
- SNG actually works - read the last RNS and make your own conclusions.
- SNG can actually manufacture thousands of treatments per month. This has not been the case up until now and there is no update from the company on this.
A medical use claim can also be directed to specific uses of known substances or compositions for the new treatment of the same disease, and novelty and inventive step established by reciting new and inventive routes of administration and novel sub-groups of patients.
Inhaled Interferon beta for lower respiratory infection is the basis of their “novel” patents
If you look at Synairgen’s influenza patent it’s based on the type of illness, time of administration, method of administration and type of treatment. So a combination of various elements. If that was not patentable then it would not have been approved, but it was. So it’s possible.
When it comes to covid-19 you have a pending patent and so the details of what was attempted to be patented are not known, but you should deem it as an approved patent until it’s approved/declined. Normally a 12 month process.
Tommy - Well a competitor would have to create their own formulation to deliver a stable dose of IFN to the lungs. Once they’ve achieved that they would have to push it through a full range of clinical trials to seek approval, which takes years.
So at the very least SNG’s patent ensures any competition have to take the long route and cannot simply copy.
No games, I'm just ignorant about this stuff. I tried to make that clear in my original post.
Trying to understand these things before making a potentially risky investment seems like a reasonable use of my time.
You could accuse me of being lazy - asking these questions on a forum rather than trying to bone up on patent law - and that's fair. Was just hoping someone could help!
And to be honest my question is still relevant. How "specific" is their "specific formulation"? Would their patent prevent any other company from making a nebulised form of IFN? If so then great; if not, that's worth knowing.
Tommy - That’s not even subtle... don’t you have better things to do with your time?
They already have several patents granted for their specific formulation so clearly yes it is patentable.
I have seen several articles reporting that Synairgen has "submitted a patent application for the use of inhaled interferon beta in Covid-19 patients."
I understand that IFN is an existing treatment that has been used to treat multiple diseases over the years (often until a more specific treatment is found).
I also understand that the concept of atomisation / nebulisation is widely used for inhaled drug delivery.
Can they really patent the concept of giving a standard drug via a a standard method for a particular disease?
How much protection is there against another company doing something similar?
My knowledge of the legal side of this stuff is nil, so I'm sure I've missed something. But I'm struck by how neither the drug itself nor the method of delivery is "new" here.