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And perhaps more to the point Ray, already patented!
Don't look at the date of the article I posted LOL.
Another glass of wine is called for.
Yup, I'll take that boom and yet she delivered us SCIB1 results......... It's like you back a wildcat oily.... chances are you will see no oil well here we already saw oil but the well never got progressed not because the oil was not there but the investment in the well dried up beyond exploration.....
It always seems to me that Lindy's science is ahead.
The article I posted stated that cytotoxic CD4 TCells could be the next big thing and Lindy announced Moditope back in 2012.
Do these guys not read?
Having said that, it is always good to see people catching up with what Lindy has already discovered, even if they are thinking their work is ground breaking.
Crumbs,
Don't forget a company has been built around her - created purely to allow her to develop her research. Investors have backed her with something like £30m. By anyone's standards that has to count as being given a chance.
'the rewards of her being right are just too great in an emerging field' Yes I'm with inan here we are talking Keytruda values and beyond we are talking $billions a market not even known as it involves saving lives that at the moment are un saveable and changing the whole landscape of cancer and beyond that other immunological diseases too.... but we are not the only ones here and also we need that chance!... Why Lindy has not been given her chance ought to be the question and I do not know why... is the uni/business set up so toxic to investment or deals? is it she is a woman and her science is too 'novel'? I dunno but I know science ends up being well the best science wins,,,, Lindy is hot on patenting her science so she ain't no ones tool
Overlooked seems to be the word here..... Which in the age of super interconnectivity seems extraordinary but I'm going with WTPs post it is not all about what you know and can prove but who you know and will fund it. ... some loops we are out of however again I go back to project blueprint....Lindy is not unknown among the movers and shakers of immunotherapy Sahin supposedly a billionaire and Mellman surely able to greenlight deals he wants....... but even among them is she a little 'ahead' we won't know till trials someone has to take the chance on her at some point.... the rewards of her being right are just too great in an emerging field
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1809194/
Conclusion
"The role of CD4+ T-cells in immunity is complex as exemplified by their multiple functions. Evidence now shows that CD4+ CTL exist in vivo in humans, which challenges our ordinary view of CD4+ helper T-cells in contrast to CD8+ killer T-cells. What their role and its importance is in the immune response remain totally unclear. Nonetheless, the study of CD4+ T-cell subsets of differentiation and the identification of analogous CD4+ CTL in the mouse should provide the means to get some answers. When the existence of suppressor CD4+ T-cells was first reported, much skepticism was raised; 10 years later, these cells raise the strongest interest. Is the same fate awaiting cytotoxic CD4+ T-cells? The answer is yet to come."
No references to Lindy's work on Moditope.
So why look for a plan B?
But Inan has posted an article stating that targeting citrullinated epitopes could by a way of attacking certain viruses.
We know that the route of stress->autophagy->citrullinated epitopes is present in both auto-immune diseases and cancer.
Why not in viruses as well? These are cells in a hostile environment. It sounds to me that it is quite plausible that the same sequence exists in other types of cells.
We have already seen that immunobody is versatile enough for Lindy to use it in a Covid19 vaccine.
Isn't is becoming increasingly apparent that the combination of well chosen targets and high avidity TCells could be used to treat a diverse range of diseases?
But moditope goes a step further in that it activates the CD4+ cytotoxic TCell. This is a cell that Lindy herself describes as "absolutely amazing". This could turn out to be a pivotal discovery of a type of CD4 T Cell that contradicts the normally accepted role of the CD4 TCell as a helper to CD8 TCells.
Ivy, I can't really add anything apart from like I said the young lady of I believe Malaysian origin who was very involved in our MaB development .... one of lindys notts uni finds! Has moved into this field ....good luck to her and think we can all agree it is a field with huge potential and I do believe scancell have mentioned the potential in this area previously... anyways will a dog get a commercial MaB from notts uni research help before a human ...who knows!
Dalester,
You have no need to apologise and your post didn't sound pessimistic - it sparked some interesting discussion. Comments in subsequent posts regarding negativity, claptrap or nonsense weren't aimed at you (in case you thought they did).
Hi Dalester,
I understand where you are coming from and although the cost of individual treatments is huge the market is tiny.
FWIW the sales opportunity of the product you mention would be about 25th on my list
Hi Crumbs,
Interesting set up and I know of the NXC. The potential market especially in US is big and this is real cutting edge. Apart from a couple of huge current areas the Vet market is always behind the human side science wise but although this type of treatment is really expensive it is so niche and very few insurers will pick up the bills.
Don't believe that what Noel Fitzpatrick does is the norm lol.
Apols if my original post sounded pessimistic, it wasn't intended to. It mainly struck me that whilst there have been quietish spells, they could have spent some time looking at some of the alternatives for their technology.
Rats, I recalled the stuff about Melanoma in horses from back in 2012 and that it seemed a reasonable route for a licencing deal of some sort. If we had let one of the big players in the Animal Health market have a couple of years to play with immunobody at the time we may have had a regular income stream from that source by now. All "ifs and "buts" I know but if it had worked for Horses who knows where it might have lead to and maybe at a faster pace? I'm guessing its easier to get permissions to test on animals than humans? The Dog vaccine Ivy mentioned (ONCEPT?) is 4 or 5 doses at $1000-$1500 per dose! A 10% royalty on 20,000 doses would bring in $2m- $3m a year to Scancell!
Sometimes, its the ability to slice and dice your IP that pays off in the long run, I bet JK Rowling never envisioned films and merchandise when she started writing Harry Potter!
Not wanting to drag scancell down a pessimistic 'plan b' route any further than has already been attempted, but cancer in pets will be a huge market given the involvement of insurers who would I am sure strike a profitable deal with drug manufacturers. Also my daughter is a specialised equine vet tells me that a very high proportion of greys develop melanoma around the anus (genuinely, not just a description of certain posters) which can only be treated by excision and hope and can shorten the life of a potentially very profitable competitor or a brood mare by years. A melanoma cure just for that would be seriously commercial and potentially very lucrative even before the spolit pooch domestic market for household pets.
Interestingly the young lady that helped develop scancells Glycan Mabs is now working in the field of antibodies for pets at this company PetMedix...https://www.petmedix.co.uk/antibody-therapeutics/
'
TECHNOLOGY
Monoclonal antibodies
Monoclonal antibodies are a hugely important human drug class, surpassing $100B in revenue in 2017 and projected to grow at around 12.5% per year into 2023[1]. They are natural molecules that our bodies produce to fight illness, and can be harnessed to treat cancer, inflammation, and a host of other conditions. There is a huge need for these therapies in veterinary medicine, as in the USA alone there are 6M cases of cancer diagnosed each year in dogs, and a similar number in cats[2], and one in four American dogs is diagnosed with some form of arthritis[3].
The first monoclonal antibody for therapeutic use in humans received marketing approval 25 years ago, 80 have since been approved and more than 50 are in late stage clinical development. In contrast, the use of antibodies in veterinary medicine is in its early stages with just a few antibodies under development. The limited progress reflects the fact that developing species-specific therapeutic antibodies is technically challenging and only a relatively recent endeavour. As a result, only one therapeutic antibody has received full marketing approval for dogs and none has been approved so far for cats.
PetMedix is building platforms that will allow us to harness the huge potential of antibody therapeutics, using the most up to date scientific and technological approaches. We will use our platforms to make high quality, fully species-specific antibodies to a wide range of targets in dogs and cats.'
Hi Bermuda and Dalester,
Have some experience of cancer Vax in Vet use including one for melanoma in dogs. The big Vet markets are FeLV whereas the Vet oncology ie melanoma in dogs is very specialised and extremely niche.
There are a tiny number of Vet oncologists Including RGs son and the market us simply not there.
Hope that helps.
Dalester,
Thanks for taking the time and trouble to copy across that post. I think it's highly unlikely that Scancell's products will be developed for veterinary use.
I wonder if anyone has given this conversation any thought since 2012? This could be plan B!
Copied from another place but I remember there being quite a lot of discussion at the time:
Hey Soulac Don't know whether you've noticed yet but you have just been answered on LSE. You asked: Dose this vaccines have any value in the animal world? Pale Rider replied with a series of posts: Soulac - Jabs For Pets Today 10:23 Yes is the answer to that, big time! The market for treatment of cancer in pets is huge. Scancell's immunobody platform for the production of vaccines to treat cancer and infectious diseases can be licensed to other companies for the production of their own vaccines. Scancell has a number of partners already developing vaccines using the company's immunobody technology. It is expected that pharmaceutical firms that currently specialise in the provision of cancer treatments for animals, principally pets, will be interested in pursuing Scancell's DNA vaccine approach simply because of its outstanding results in animal studies. http://www.vetmed.wisc.edu/Animal_Cancer_Treatment.9.3.html Jabs For Pets - Melanoma Today 11:03 Dogs can develop melanoma of the mouth and this is one condition for which DNA vaccines are already being approved. Of course it must be emphasized that pets can develop all the cancers that humans develop ..... lung, breast and so on. That is why this market is expected to be so important now. It is estimated to be worth tens of billions of dollars. http://www.examiner.com/article/dogs-oncept-vical-s-new-therapeutic-dna-vaccine-for-treating-canine-oral-melanoma-approved-by-usda Marketing Drive Today 11:28 Aside from Scancell's cancer vaccines, there is their globally patented technology on which these vaccines are based, the company's ImmunoBody® platform. This DNA vaccine technology can be used to manufacture vaccines to treat infectious diseases as well as cancer. In fact it is the company's intention, upon completion of SCIB1's Phase 1 trials, in December this year, to offer the platform to other vaccine companies using data from Phase 1 as a marketing aid [its important to bare in mind that Phase 1 will, in addition to its initial objective to test for toxicity, gather clinical data "to demonstrate cellular immune response and tumour response"]. Combined with the data for SCIB1's success in animals and the equal success of SCIB2 in animal studies it is hoped that the platform will be eagerly exploited by developers of vaccines for humans and also by those developing vaccines for companion animals.