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Stop squirming, Pianista. Lie face down quietly while nurse applies her soothing balm. :-)
Slownsteady - thank you for replying. Your only UK example though is of Guinness, which happened 35 years ago, when I would agree enforcement was tougher. It really was “the good old days” in that sense - though I note that Saunders only did 10 months as he was believed to be suffering from Alzheimer’s disease (from which he subsequently made a full recovery!).
These days there’s more regulation, but less rigorous enforcement: there have been countless cases since Guinness where allegations of financial irregularity have not been properly investigated, or charges have been dropped or defendants acquitted for “lack of evidence”. I’m not going to name names obviously, but most well-informed PIs will know whom I’m talking about…
Pianista, I didn't know you had asked the question. But if you insist... a certain Saunders, Ronson, Cohen, and others for trying to manipulate the Guinness SP back in the good old days... the Saatchis, who were allegedly part of that dinner table cabal that concocted the scheme escaped by the skin of their teeth due to their close links with Thatcher.
In the US, the Junk Bond King Michael Milliken was jailed for manipulating Bond Issues in exactly the same way. Plus a host of others from Goldmans, Salomans etc.
The Yanks ae much harsher about all this than the Brits. I don't know how old you are, but stories of Wall Street Investment Bankers who tried their manipulation tricks being led out of their Offices in tears and handcuffs were legion.
De Hann has come back because he saw an opportunity. If it was purely due to an attachment to Saga then he would not have sold Saga in the first place. I wish him luck in trying to help Saga get back to the valuation that he sold at .
ss
''Absolutely ridiculous company run by idiots''
Roger De Haan sold Saga for £1.4bn
Current market cap is about £132 million
Absolutely ridiculous company run by idiots
Slownsteady - I'm still waiting for you to tell me who's actually been jailed for your "jailable" offences....
As for the SP, this will move in response to a whole host of unpredictable market forces. It would be naive to assume that the fact that it has moved south means that no attempt has been made to manipulate it north. The best laid plans of mice and men, and all that…
''to attract suckers into the Open Offer''
yes it was bound to go down due to selling above the offer price available to shareholders.
It is each individuals opinion as to whether taking up the offer would be a sucker punch or not.
Personally I will be taking up at least my 5 for 9 at 12p ,as after all De Hann is well pleased with his stake bought at 27p.
Pianista, remind me again... You said the sp was going to be manipulated north before the deadline to attract suckers into the Open Offer?
Precisely the opposite has happened. Ooops.... :-)
Slownsteady - I'm afraid you're the one living in a fantasy world if you think the City is squeaky clean!
"If you are a long term Owner, No."
Slownsteady, you make some very valid points, however, the statement above is definitely open for debate IMHO.
Anyway, we all want the same outcome on this SP and all the best with your investment, like yourself I have a significant holding here.
GLA
That's debatable Joe (depending on your approach).
If you are a short term trader, Yes.
If you are a long term Owner, No.
As for the rules, they are specific, as anyone who has sat the Securities Exams (I have), will know. Takeovers, New Issues, Reporting requirements etc... are all set down in black and white.
So all the conspiracy theories about price manipulation, taking over the Company by stealth, not reporting Takeover approaches, what constitutes advice and what does not, are fantasies of the (sorry) ignorant.
"You appear to be one of the casino chancers who doesn't know the rules"
Didn't get to finish my post.....Slownsteady......whether you know the rules or not......the stock market is a casino
GLA
You appear to be one of the casino chancers who doesn't now the rules
Great board. Just read through and got the answer to my own question of buying on open market or leaving my election of taking up the offer. GLA.
At 11.5 the cost i for me is £3 less than the offer when you take tax and dealing costs into account so at the moemnt I am leaving it but if it falls further I will change
Slow & Marcus
I agree with you both. I can’t understand why anybody would pay more tomorrow at 12P than they can pay today at 11.4P. Stamp duty is only 0.06P and dealing costs negligible for a decent size of transaction.
Jointhedots, you have just provide advice on a share investment etc etc.
Calm down, everyone here is entitled to give an opinion, if someone choose to follow slows or your pattern of investment that is their choice. Its not professional advice.
I may also cancel taking up the offer as at 11.4p the additional charges become less of a barrier. Why buy at a higher price?
@joindots... No, I am simply filling in factual information specific to the questions being posted. It is neither illegal (already posted as an RNS) or disgraceful, but merely helpful. As evidenced by the gracious thanks received from the questioners.
You appear to be one of the casino chancers who doesn't now the rules. By all means take up your entitlement @12p. It will mean others don't have to pick up your slack.
By the way, I am well long (300k shares), so have no vested interest in a "crushed sp" as you so uneloquently put it.
slownsteady - you are providing advice on share investment, that is not only illegal but disgraceful. You have a vested interest in a crushed SP, as you say you intend to buy cheap and raise the possibility institution will throw a quantity of their shares at the market for less than they paid for them
There is every possibility that the current low SP is being contrived to ensure shareholders don't take up shares (II get them by default)
Guys, Don't be taken in by those with a vested interest in your demise - I've bought in the open market at less than 12p and I'm taking up rights in open offer, you make your own choice.
Slownsteady
Thank you. I have spoke to the stock broker and changed my election and I bought them at 11.5P instead.
One thing to consider is the overhang if the Bookbuilding commitments are left holding a significant share amount and decide to sell or reduce their exposure.
Looks like the £10 million Underwriting fee was worth its salt after all.
Get back to your Stockbroker sharpish and cancel your acceptance. I've done that (online, will confirm by phone), planning to buy in the market.
It could be your Stockbroker (as with mine) will fill your original acceptance with only the cash available. But definitely check with them and cancel the original acceptance.
if I buy shares today at 11.5P and so have no funds, will the offer lapse or will I be forced to by the 12P shares that I have been granted under the offer and accepted?
Thank you for the replies, much appreciated.