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Alf, how does my post suggesting that we could buy FF from DSM say that we would manufacture it ourselves?
DSM manufacture is what I'd said at the time. That might not add up as DSM don't manufacture as Gixer pointed out, but it wouldn't rule out us buying from DSM and them handling logistics to ship to China.
At no point did I suggest we manufacture ourselves....not sure why you want to drag that point out when what you claim is clearly untrue.
Its a good guess and we can only assume that it was for Team DSM and we received £9.2k for the Fruitflow+ nitrates development products in the year so it must have been a few packs :)
Again, only assuming but Fruitflow + Nitrates would be outside the Alliance Agreement.
That would make sense..... The Jan 21 interims do not indicate the nitrates were for the cycling team though. Doesn't really matter, all good progress..
From Jan 21 interims
Further interest in the role of Fruitflow in exercise has been generated by pro cycling Team DSM (formerly Team Sunweb)'s use of Fruitflow in the Tour de France. The benefits that Fruitflow can provide for athletes in terms of improved recovery are set out in more detail on the website at www.fruitflowplus.com/sportrecovery.
The Company continues to work on a potential Fruitflow+ nitrates product which would be supported by the Company's strong patent position in this area, with the involvement now of third party manufacturers and with some interest already generated from brand owners. The product will have anti-inflammatory and circulation benefits for athletes seeking to recover after exercise, properties which would also be potentially beneficial to a wide range of other consumers to include people who are less active and people who suffering from the symptoms of basic ageing.
Could it be what the cycling lads were taking?
I found this statement in the results intriguing
"In collaboration with DSM a trial batch of Fruitflow+ nitrates development products was manufactured during the year and sold to DSM."
Who did the selling ? Did DSM sell to itself ? Who supplied the nitrates ? SiS ?
W?
Yep, although I doubt anyone here has been invested from the formation of Provexis.
Your Sunday 12.03 post does say exactly that, and even suggests a mark up, I think that's why myself and gixer sought to clarify. All makes zero difference to the outcome, that's be down to the completion of studies and what effect they have on the opinions of health professionals. If there can be a proven link to aiding recovery from Covid symptoms, then Wellsite's comment that Fruitflow may be too big for Provexis to handle may well be highly viable IMHO
Well to be fair Alf, I'd never said we should be responsible for the manufacturing side, and that's what you seemed to be suggesting I had said.
Fair enough if we see things in a different way, but at least try to deal with people's opinions rather than things they haven't said.
Not sure why BB is taking umbridge though, just a few people bored senseless, having a chat after 15+ years of waiting...
..and all I said was it seemed an illogical position.
Polish that badge BB
:-)
BB,
"negative" no
"paranoid" no
But if Barbershop, or anyone else, feels like I have jumped down his/her throat because I simply disagreed with there statement then I apologise. It was not my intention to come across that way.
As we have already agreed to disagree I am unsure why you feel the need to bring it up again but my opinion, rightly or wrongly remains the same.
As Provexis is responsible for the manufacture, supply and sale of Fruitflow to By-Health I don't see how they can be classed as the middleman.
Does it matter either way? No.
Seems to me that some people are jumping down a poster's throat because they perceived the term "middleman" as negative and took umbrage at that.
If you own the IP, and act as a middleman, that's actually acknowledging your limitations and, almost certainly, maximising your returns. But if you're a bit paranoid about stuff posted, you might not see it like that.
See also https://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english/middleman
BB
Fair enough.
Hopefully next few years will start to see some kind of turnaround in outlook.
Well we will have to agree to disagree on this one.
As for "salting it", I am only stating how I see it.
One thing that is for sure is all the profit will go directly to Provexis from By-Health sales, not split with DSM and there share would have been more than 10%
No one mentioned or suggested generics Gixer, we all know we're talking about FF and that we have patent protection.
Not sure why you and Alfista can't respond to what people are saying without salting it.
This is what I'm seeing from Provexis scope:
manufacturer (3rd party) >>supplier(Provexis)>>Customer(ByHealth)
Seems to put us in the middle.
You might well say that ByHealth then sell on again in various formats, but it's outside our scope in the terms of the supply chain.
You make it sound like Provexis is buying and selling some generic product like vitamin c. It's not.
Indena is a contract manufacturer and would be manufacturing Fruitflow under contract for Provexis. As though pxs was manufacturing it themselves.
So, to change my first thought. If there is a middleman then that would be By-health as they are buying from the owner and selling on.
Alf, I never suggested we would manufacture ourselves, again, I have no idea where that comes from when I'd say we could buy it from a third party....
If we are responsible for supplying something that someone else manufactures to byhealth, seems to out us in the middle of that chain to me, but there you go, everyone has their own take on it...
Just my opinion but if there is a middle man then surely that would be the manufacturer. Its certainly not provexis.
Well, your previous post, calling Provexis the "middle men".
Even if Provexis expand demand vastly, it will always be more cost effective to use a specialist to make it, but that doesnt make it a "middle man" operation IMHO
Who's suggesting that Alf? Not sure where it's coming from.
That doesn't seem logical to me. Are you suggesting that Provexis should move from their business model of mainly being responsible for developing and maintaining IP and patents, to a specialist manufacturer of the product? How much would that cost, how would a factory be run when production is only required a few times per year?
Was only suggesting we would use a third party for the manufacture...ok so it might not be DSM, still sounds like man in the middle to me...
Just for info in case anyone is not aware.
DSM does not manufacture Fruitflow but instead has a company in Italy/France to do this work and they are called Indena SAS.
Not saying this is were Provexis will have it manufactured but they are already set up and we will not have to go through DSM to buy it.
Barbershop,
Without wanting to sound cheeky. Can I suggest you read the RNS again?
"Provexis will be responsible for the manufacture, supply and sale of its Fruitflow heart-health functional food ingredient to By-Health, and it will contribute scientific expertise necessary for successful commercialisation."
The Agreement between Provexis and By-Health is totally independent to the DSM alliance agreement and 100% of the profit on Fruitflow sold to By-Health will go directly to Provexis and nil to DSM.
https://otp.investis.com/clients/uk/provexis_plc/rns/regulatory-story.aspx?cid=1569&newsid=1523432
Almost sounds like we've set ourselves up to be man in the middle. DSM manufacture, we deliver to By health with a 10% markup.
Thanks Gixer you are a great help