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Just in case people have lost sight of your item regarding the issue of the Chinese in Italy, the following implies that China caused the huge increase of "vicitims" of coronavirus in Italy.
"China apparently did not believe it had any responsibility to tell its new partner that a dangerous virus had been on the loose in Wuhan in December, and that many of the Chinese arriving in Northern Italy during the winter might be carriers. The decimation of Italy’s elderly highlights how China handles partner nations, and it’s a dark future."
This comes from an article that outlines the recent agreements between China and Italy regarding infrastructure development.
This affects us all so we should wake up for the benefit of our children and grandchildren. Read this article which, Anovas, totally vindicates your view and is entitled "dark-shadow-chinese-globalization-falls-over-italy"
Italy has been ravaged by the Wuhan Coronavirus, but the reasons why are linked more closely to globalism than the age of the infected
Hundreds of thousands of Chinese immigrants now live both legally and illegally in Italy, with 300K legally registered and many more illegal.
>>>>>> · Italy recently entered into a new economic partnership with China called “One belt, One road”
>>>>>> · China has revitalized northern Italian ports in order to transport goods more efficiently to the rest of Europe
>>>>>> · The mayor of Florence initiated a social media campaign called “Hug a Chinese” using Chinese produced video as an engine to dispel the “racism” against the Chinese in Italy
>>>>>> Thirty years ago, Italy saw the beginnings of what would become a serious issue with illegal immigration. What was surprising, was that the immigrants couldn’t just walk over a border to enter the country, they had to flock from China. It began with Italians hiring the Chinese off the books at cheap wages to work making garments in towns and villages renowned for their craftmanship, and morphed into Italians seeing the Chinese learn how to do it faster and cheaper; often times watching as their family owned businesses were shuttered because they were outbid. The Chinese took over the Italian craft and made it their own. What didn’t change was the coveted “Made in Italy” label. The NY Times began documenting the trend in 2010 writing:
>>>>>> Over the years, Italy learned the difficult lesson that it could no longer compete with China on price. And so, its business class dreamed, Italy would sell quality, not quantity. For centuries, this walled medieval city just outside of Florence has produced some of the world’s finest fabrics, becoming a powerhouse for “Made in Italy” chic.
>>>>>> And then, China came here.
>>>>>> Chinese laborers, first a few immigrants, then tens of thousands, began settling in Prato in the late 1980s. They transformed the textile hub into a low-end garment manufacturing capital, enriching many, stoking resentment and prompting recent crackdowns that in turn have brought cries of bigotry and hypocrisy.
>>>>>> The city is now home to the largest concentration of Chinese in Europe; some legal, many more not. Here in the heart of Tuscany, Chinese laborers work round the clock in some 3,200 businesses making low-end clothes, shoes and accessories, often with materials imported from China, for sale at midprice and low-end retailers worldwide.
>>>>>> The trend continued as whole villages in Italy became Chinese villages, with the Chinese displacing the Italians who lived there, creating their own neighborhoods, and pushing out decades of Italian family owned business. They weren’t known for following the rules. It caused much local consternation; the Italians were forced to pay their taxes and follow the employment guidelines
Since we are riding hobby horses I have a few more.
Churchill was no favourite of Ireland. In 1922 during the Irish Independence debates he said, if they could not come to an agreement he would send back the "black and tans" a ragtag militia created from convicts and world war one out of work returning soldiers that wreaked havoc in Ireland in 1919-20.
Here is how these thugs worked.
a granduncle of mine was taken out late at night into the fields to be shot by two of them. Unfortunately for them they did not realise the IRA were waiting who shot the "black and tans" and my granduncle escaped but had to leave the country, emigrating to America to save himself.
And you talk about the brutality of the British in China. Read the history of Ireland and see the brutality of Britain to Ireland. Its dealings with China fade into insignificance.
For your edification of the Black and Tans and the IRA you should read the best story ever written about it. Frank O'Connor's wonderful story "Guests of the Nation". Here is the synopsis and the actual story can be downloaded from "Free books" online. Well worth a read.
You question Churchilll's giving of Turing's technology to USA but just imagine what money the UK could have made if they had just charged £1 for every version of it that was used since then? Look at Bill Gates who is a dot in the computer market but is worth $100billion alone just for conning IBM. Just imagine how much the UK could have made over the years when you consider computers still use Touring's original "bit" concept of on or off. He used that because he had only light bulbs and later transistors as his base so theyu could only be on or off giving you "1"'s and "0"'s; still the building blocks of all computers even today.
And what did Watson, Head of IBM, say when IBM were given the technology? "I expect we will only ever need to develop 4 or 5 worldwide machines based on this" and how many do you have to date? There are currently 3billion in the world today but how many have been made over the years? How about 30billion? I have a drawer full of old ones which you probably have too.
Another bugbear of mine is the statement yesterday by Max Hastings who said the old were a burden on the UK's national health.
Yes Max, and it is people like you who will not let them die a dignified death using euthanasia so they "bed block" because they are left to fade out like living vegetables. I had an old friend who was injured ended up in bed wishing to die but kept alive because she had plenty of money and they were soaking her assets. She finally succumbed after refusing to take her tablets or drink water fora about six months which finally killed her - a horrible death. And how old was she? 94. Now that is the height of
As everyone probably knows ... best statement re Churchill was by US ... he has a great idea everyday the problem is distinguishing it from the 99 bad ones ....he was behind mustard gas bombing in Iraq, sent WW1 crazies to Ireland in the form of irregulars, killed God knows how many in the Dardanelles .... and probably the only reason the Italians weren’t selling drugs in China like other major European powers is because they were barely a country and probably to their credit are for the most part militarily inept ....
personally I dislike bashing any nationality ... people are people and countries express themselves by reference to where they are on the endless cycle from rags to riches and how their actions are marketed .... thus the nasty Chinese are ruining the world whilst US and UK allied forces manage hundred of thousands of “collateral” deaths as they liberate oppressed people’s .... their is much written on the marketability of nationalism ... how Stalin went from ruthless dictator to uncle joe to dictator again in nearly a decade ... the Germans from ruthless Nazis to good guys in 15 years .... if you believe all of that tosh as B Dylan said so long ago “your only a pawn in their game” ... thankfully mankind is bigger than a flag ...
That's an interesting history, Manyana.
I don't see, though, how giving away Britain's computer know-how could damage Churchill's chances of sainthood, and among leaders during World War Two, he comes out near the top in moral terms.
I agree with you about Chinese eating habits; I am sure they have far more to do with perverse appetite than hardship.
I also agree that responsibility for the outbreak rests with China.
Not that I wish it upon the Chinese, but having exported it, they are now unintentionally importing it with Chinese returning from abroad.
I am afraid your knowledge of Ireland in WWII is limited. A few facts.
Ireland was governed in the war by an illegitimate American, Eamon De Valera, born of an Irish mother who should have been executed in 1916 except Britain did not want to antagonise the Americans so he did a bit of time in prison and then became a big hero in Ireland.
In 1939, Winston Churchill asked De Valera to join Britain in the war against Germany. In return Churchhill promised that Northern Ireland would be united with Southern Ireland . De Valera refused to sacrifice his people, after all enough Irish blood had been spilled fighting England.
But his ulterior motive was that he hoped Hitler would win the war and put him in charge of Ireland and Britain and so he refused to allow British ships to seek fair harbour in Irish ports. So Britain starved the Irish during the war.
Furthermore, there are two sides in Ireland Fine Gael and Fine Fail which came out of the civil war and never the two sides will meet. De Valera was the "leader" of Fine Fail and f**ked up the country. I come from the Fine Gael side and am among those who believe De Valera was responsible for the death of Michael Collins -enough said.
Your friend Churchill however was no saint. He made the terrrible mistake of giving the computer technology Alan Touring had developed in Bletchley to the Americans who gave it to IBM, Touring was prevented from saying what he had done by the "official secrets act" in case the Russians found out and he was then hounded to his death by British secret Service, finally committing suicide (or was it murder) in 1954. So you can stick that one clearly up Churchill's cigar. No saint there for you Brits, I am afraid.
I like your notion, by the way, that you think "Covid is minor payback in comparison". For example, what did Italy do to China and I thought China with all its new found wealth could afford to feed its people something better than bats, cats, dogs and any other filth it can find. What is it doing with all the money it has earned worldwide? Certainly created a lot of billionaires and starving the rest?
give it a rest Manyans ... hungry people eat whatever they can .. we are human beings first ... nationality and culture are just the coating ... I will tell you something about irish people during the war ... they charged the British and US families of washed up sailors (primarily) killed by German Uboats to bury them and look after their graves ... extorting large amounts of money ... often when the families arrived on the island after the war they found that in fact there was no body or grave at all ... that does not mean the Irish are ..(choose your word) ... it just means they are people ... some are good and some are bad and when they have no money most of us will do what it takes to survive .......
Agreed it might be a good idea if the Chinese shut down their live markets .... but I recall us European have wiped out millions with our diseases ...... and sold opium to the Chinese and destroyed the heart and soul of their nation ..... Covid is minor payback in comparison ...
Lets keep this BB dedicated to the issue of the Irish oil company and the topic of the Irish CEO who effectively fleeced everyone and lets see if his British counterpart can improve the mess he left!!!!!
"By 1846 Ireland became post-apocalyptic, with people eating dogs, rats and even each other."
When Ireland had a famine in the 19th century they did not go around eating dogs, cats, bats as far as I know. They just starved, died or emigrated.
Our recent relatives lived though hard times, especially during the war which De Valera refused to call a war and called it "The Emergency" instead. Our parents, grandparents and children born during the war lived on milk, potatoes and cabbage and for a treat had some blackberries that they probably picked from bushes. They didn't eat the dogs and cats then either, a few rabbits probably if they could catch them and they certainly did not eat bats even though there were plenty flying about.
It is a known fact that viruses jump species. The last four major virus pandemics all started in China, SARS, MERS, SADS and now Coronavirus and all, it is claimed, started with bats and pigs.
So, if Coronavirus does not kill us all the next one China produces probably will. So, why are countries not seeking reparation from China as this latest virus could destroy the economies of the world and China is to blame, so pay up.
And how come China is not reporting any new casualties or deaths from Corona virus while the numbers are escalating in the rest of the word? Have they developed an antidote and have not told anybody about it? You can be sure if they had, they would have no compunction testing it on their people before it was fully verified as safe.
Places such as that exist because there are people who have plenty and there are people with nothing. While we speculate on whether we will get rich on the oil or the gas, there are people worrying about how they will feed their family tomorrow.
Covid 19 is very much our fault as it is theirs while we continue to allow the world to be a very unequal place.