London South East prides itself on its community spirit, and in order to keep the chat section problem free, we ask all members to follow these simple rules. In these rules, we refer to ourselves as "we", "us", "our". The user of the website is referred to as "you" and "your".
By posting on our share chat boards you are agreeing to the following:
The IP address of all posts is recorded to aid in enforcing these conditions. As a user you agree to any information you have entered being stored in a database. You agree that we have the right to remove, edit, move or close any topic or board at any time should we see fit. You agree that we have the right to remove any post without notice. You agree that we have the right to suspend your account without notice.
Please note some users may not behave properly and may post content that is misleading, untrue or offensive.
It is not possible for us to fully monitor all content all of the time but where we have actually received notice of any content that is potentially misleading, untrue, offensive, unlawful, infringes third party rights or is potentially in breach of these terms and conditions, then we will review such content, decide whether to remove it from this website and act accordingly.
Premium Members are members that have a premium subscription with London South East. You can subscribe here.
London South East does not endorse such members, and posts should not be construed as advice and represent the opinions of the authors, not those of London South East Ltd, or its affiliates.
LongTerm74 - As I understand it W2T Protosltd is the SPV that will be used for the first commercial site. It was previously dormant.
I have noticed there is a w2t company and a w2t protos company shown on Companies House. John looks to be heading up the protos company.
I don't know how this factors in to the company mix.
Yes stokey, I did miss the point you were making, well sort of! I think the W2T document you are referring to could be slightly misleading. It was prepared on the basis that W2T would be the sole owner of the DMG operation, in which case all of the revenue would quite rightly go to W2T, out of which they would pay the licence fee to PHE.
However, instead of reading W2T in that particular table, substitute SPV, the company that will presumably be set up for each DMG site. The revenues will go to the SPV company as the owner and operator of the DMG unit(s), and not directly to W2T. If W2T is the only shareholder / owner of the SPV company, then of course they will get all of the remaining Net Profit from the operation after paying the licence fee and all operating costs. If there are two or more shareholders / owners of the SPV company, then the Net Profit will be shared out accordingly.
Well that's my take on it anyway.
Piltick - Unusually you have missed my point. The point I was making in my 06.09 post was that W2T in order to get pre-IPO funding issued a document, see this link https://jmp.sh/NnP3dpS. From the financial modelling on page 16 the majority of the income generated goes to W2T. If you check it may be that all the revenue apart from the license fee for PHE goes to W2T so if that is correct only B or C would be possible and even then C might have problems. In any of the other cases W2T would need to explain to the investors how they are going to recieve the promised returns.
Stokey: I don't think there should be a problem deciding on the profit share under any of these circumstances, because the share of profits will be determined by the percentage shareholding by each party in the JV (SPV) that owns and operates the DMG unit.
Wolveshaveeyes - In relation to your 00.07 post in view of the way matters were presented by W2T in thier Pre-IPO document it would have to be B or C. Although C may have issues with it due to how much of the net profit W2T said in the IPO document it would get.
Thanks Guy's for your responses and info links.
I have always considered that Peel was to provide the land and the £100k per site towards planning and permitting. When this was first muted and having the benefit of Kenny's link, I consider that at that time PHE preferred option was looking to provide a one stop solution, 'PHE will Build, Own, Operate the DMG® facilities'.
Whilst this may have been the initial intention, times have probably changed and PHE may have found it too difficult to raise the funding necessary for this to happen without significant dilution of existing shareholder funds. If correct, this may have triggered a need to move to a plan B which could be 'Active interest in licensing by multiple firms worldwide'.
So, in the UK and making an assumption it is Peel's Land could plants 1 to 10 be
a) 100% funded by Peel
b) %Peel +%W2T
c) %Peel + %W2T + %WM company(s)
d) %Peel + %WM company
e) A combination of the above
f) None of the above
On the assumption that maybe plant 1 with options 2-10 are already spoken for, that may therefore leave the Large WM Companies fighting to secure 2nd contract (plant 11 with options position). IMHO the demand and ability to fulfil supply as raised in one of my previous posts may still apply, just a little bit further down the chain. For me this is a very interesting risk = reward scenario.
Your continued views and any corrections to my assumptions will still be much appreciated.
Wolves
My wife would disagree Sharesport, ha ha.
Here’s hoping W2T are lining people up. It may be that these £50k deposits are what’s paying for the material testing etc that PHE are doing in the background. It’s all just my guess work and trying to piece the parts together.
Gadams
Well spotted Gadams. My apologies. Your memory is better than mine.
Thanks Gadams
Feb 2018
http://www.waste2tricity.com/dl/Pre-IPO-Waste2tricity-Hydrogen.pdf
Thanks Gadams, I had missed that one. I wonder if anyone has actually paid a deposit of £50k.
I managed to find it already...
Slide 12, Bullet 2 of the W2T IPO document:
http://waste2tricity.com/dl/Pre-IPO-Waste2tricity-Hydrogen%20V6.3.pdf
Granted, I think I must have read this well after the suspected Peel £500k RNS back in 2017. However, it may be where the idea of £50k deposits per unit for future priority came from. Who knows.
Just thought i would mention it after reading a few posts around how WM companies need to move fast to ensure they don’t end up too far down a list. Keen to hear thoughts.
Gadams
Piltick, Sharesport - fair enough. I’ll assume i’m wrong for now, but will have a look and see if I can find the reference to £50k deposits and let you if I do.
Gadams
I am in agreement Piltick as far as I am aware.
I don't think that's right, Gadams. There wasn't a payment of £500k made in June 2017, it was agreed that they would pay up to £500k to assist with planning etc. on the sites. Several posters on here, including myself, believed that it was Peel, and I think that is now fairly obvious.
I'm not aware of W2T taking deposits of £50k to secure future DMG unit. Where did that come from?
With regards to priority queues, am I right in thinking that W2T are taking £50,000 non-refundable deposits to secure priority on future DMG units? If the £500,000 payment in June 17 was from Peel then it would tie in with the 10 units they’ve now signed up for. Just a thought.
Gadams
Given the length of time since that RNS you can see thoroughly Peel have been looking at DMG just as DR stated.
Hi Stokey, I enclose details of the RNS from June 17 which may now be OBE /RNS updates.
PowerHouse Energy Group Plc
(“PowerHouse”, or the “Company”)
PHE Collaboration Agreement of up to £500,000
PowerHouse Energy Group Plc (AIM: PHE), the company focused on ultra high temperature gasification waste to energy systems, and the creation of Distributed Modular Gasification© (DMG), is delighted to announce a collaboration agreement with a UK partner involved in the development of energy and waste projects.
Subject to achieving certain performance milestones of the G3-UHt demonstration unit sited at Thornton Science Park and to entering into an option to lease land to site the units, the partner has committed two tranches of funding of up to £500,000 in aggregate to meet the cost of preparing and funding applications for planning permission and environmental permits of the initial demonstration unit and first five PHE Waste-to-Energy G3-UHt systems.
The agreement will require PowerHouse to supply five systems at locations of the partners' choosing on a prioritised basis, based upon the completion of UK Certifications and demonstration of the G3-UHt unit in active operation.