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I used to work for energy from waste plant.
The subsidy was, the more waste "consumed", the more cash they received (hence the plant owner not interested in efficiency but to keep minimum above EA specified limit, thats another story).
Dmg may well receive subsidy by "consumed" more plastic, if there will be any intbe future.
Good point stokey, I believe you are right!
Piltick - further to my post of 14.42 this is the link to the consultation document if you see any reference to a criteria relating to cost of production to qualify for a subsidy let me know.
Piltick - You have to remember that this is the british government and therefore they are likely to have asystem that says if you produce a we will give you b. The fact that you do not need b is irrelevant you would be entitled to it because you are producing a
But, having said that, bear in mind the the DMG unit is expected to produce hydrogen at a much lower cost (and hence lower price) than any other hydrogen producer, using any other method, so it is unlikely that anyone using DMG technology will qualify for any kind of subsidy. Subsidies may be given to other producers, but of course that is unknown at the moment.
PHE receive 20% of the net revenue (after deduction of operating costs) and revenue would presumably include any subsidy received. So I would expect the subsidy to be subject to the 20% calculation like all other revenue.
98889 - Thank you for your 13.43 post. In answer to your scenario as I understand all the models certainly as they are relevant to PHE any subsidy is likely to be in the form as a guaranteed price for either the fuel or the hydrogen or both. This would be to stimulate the market and cover additional cost. In relation to the power generated it might take the form of a price at or slightly above the current market price.
Hi Stokey,
Understood,. to me, subsidy or not could be few years away, it isfuture, so i don't want to include it in my calculation. Future is good but we are where we are. Hence pure hydrogen output is my wishful thinking.
Talking aboit subsidy, that bring me another question.
Say, a corporation called xyz owns a wastetoenergy of Plant-A that use 30tpd dmg to produce x amount of electricity/hydrogen.
Fewyears late there is subsidy of 2mil to Plant-A due to nature of business.
Question:
will the 2mil also be part of 20% phe licence income, or it is only going to the xyz corporation.
98889 - Further to your 10.38 post whether a power only DMG unit will generate less income than a Hydrogen and power DMG unit delends on a number of factors including the cost per MW compared to the cost per KG of hydrogen. There is currently a consultation out from BEIS which is looking at business models for CCUS businesses. So it would seem that in a few years we might see a subsidised price for production of decarbonised electricity and hydrogen production. If that is the case this might also affect the relative price difference between the two.
Agreed.
the "hydrogen only" Option, is my greediness and is my preference. However, imnot the owner of any waste-to-electricity plant, so my preference will be nothing, and it is base on no study to current hydrogen economy or Commercial viablility.
I am interested in power generation if for no other reason that a site which only generates electricity has been shown to be financially viable and a fairly decent investment for the developer/site owner.
Absolutely, 98889, adding hydrogen generation is a major financial boost but it is also slightly reliant on the hydrogen economy being ready in the local area of the DMG site. The immediate answer to this and what I love about the modular aspect of the DMG technology is a site owner can choose to develop a site with electricity only and then, at a later stage, add hydrogen production.
I personally not interested at the electricity generation, because it generates less income , less fees can be collected by phe.
I am looking forward to the hydrogen output.
The exact composition of the feed stock is going to impact the output of power massively. Even variables like daily moisture content will have an impact as more/less energy will be required to gasify the contents of the chamber. I therefore think any calculations on power generation need to be considered as rough estimated averages at best. Dave has been hesitant to quote numbers (that's the engineer in him) as opposed to Keith, who I suspect, used to quote numbers based on ideal conditions.
Dave mentioned previously they were able to mix feed stocks of different calorific values together. So, for example, they could mix farm slurry with tyre crumb. Slurry has a lower calorific value than tyre so the output would be less but there is a lot of slurry which can't easily be disposed of. I was delighted to hear about this in the post presentation Q&A session in Edinburgh as it shows the technical flexibility of the DMG unit. This, therefore, increases the possible use-cases for the DMG unit which equates to many more sales opportunities. Just imagine a DMG unit taking clinical waste from hospitals, something which is currently required to be incinerated.
That's my understanding stokey. So running at a rate of 2.8 MW would produce 67.2 mwh in a 24-hour day, but I may well be corrected by our more technical posters on here!
Piltick/Longterm74 - Thank you both for your answers do either of you know are the power figures the amount produced in an hour or in a day so that the figure would have to be multiplied by 24
Here's what David Ryan said in his discussion with Andrew Scott on Proactive on 14 August:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=1&v=UhrpIMSC2W0
4m:30s: DR: We'll start at 25 tpd and generate 2.8 megawatts, then we'll move up to 35 tonnes and export maybe 3 / 3.5 megawatts. And then when hydrogen kicks in we can export up to 2 tonnes of hydrogen per day, and obviously the power drops down as hydrogen is exported.
... and there is no way to edit my spelling mistake. Joys!
Dave quoted at the AGM :
3MW for the 35ton unit
3.4MW to 4MW for the 50ton unit - but he was hesitant to commit to this as it was very dependant on feed stock.
Has anybody been abke to work out how much power a 35TPD DMG unit will produce?