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Woops sory I ment your post 13.13 Stokey That Peel would be financing The FOAK AND the other 11 sites from their own resources.
Alright Kenny Ref your post 15.03 Enough said I think. Incidentally Does the term "Project manager" cover the EPC (contactor responsible for getting all the quotes for the parts of the system) and the "Development manager" for getting it up and running . I have not heard any term for the company responsible for raising the funding so "Funding manager" I guess. Anyway , for the FOAK DMG Peel seems to be responsible for all of these functions as well as being the customer. Is this right and are some of these terms interchangable ?
USA................
Untested dreams, without enough funding...................IMHO
OK Stokey. Ref. your 14.31 post I hope you are right about that.
With regard to the Feedstock. Ways2H quote Municipal solid waste including plastic . PHE are concentrating on the plastic mountain. They have mentioned that Biomass could be used however. Ways2H does look like a direct competitor to me . It is about the same size ( 8-50 US tons /day waste input) and also hydrogen output (1.4-1.75 tonnes/day)
The SGH2 process is different using plasma torches at much higher temperatures (3500-4000 deg. C) and on a much bigger scale ( see previous post) i.e. 114 tonnes/day bio waste in producing 11 tonnes/day hydrogen. This does seem to indicate size matters i.e a ratio of 10:1 approx. for SGH2 and 35:2 or 17.5:1 for PHE (they quoted 25: 1 orriginaly) and for Ways2H (Approx) . I hope you understand why I am so concerned about the timescale now.
Peel are taking on the role of project managers because they can see the potential. They have alluded to 100 units in the UK. We are in discussions with international project managers in Spain, Australia and the Philippines.
What is the share price telling you without any news?
operastar in relation to your 12.37 post all of the first 11 units are part of the Peel plastics parks initiative and I therefore believe that Peel would be funding them from its own resources without going to outside funders with the possible exception of HMG. It is on this basis that I would expect the majority if not all of the initial 11 sites to have been done before any competitors are fully operational.
I am sorry to be pessimistic about this Stokey . My view is that the FOAK DMG will have to start construction at least by autumn this year and then run for at least a year for testing/ snagging before other customers will risk financing the other 10 ,or is it 11 units in the pipeline. (I'm not sure what has or will happen to the insurance wrap scheme). I was very irritated by the merger plan when announced and considered it a side show to getting the FOAK built . I now understand from David Ryan that the merger is a necessity for Peel ( and I guess instigated by them ) as a prerequisite for getting the funding for the building. From endless posts here I understand that this cannot happen before endless wrangles go on ,mainly between lawers and THEN an EGM (or AGM?) to explain the deal and then get agreement of sharholders. In the meantime the EPC ( whoever they are, anyone know?) has to sign off on all the contractor bids for all the parts of the system before the financing deal can be concluded and construction started. Judging by the progress to date, I think a two year period for all this is being very optimistic, nearer three I think .As has been said Lawyers love to wrangle. I really hope I am wrong and Peel particularly get their corporate finger out and bang heads together.
operastar in relation to your 00.16 post in my view there is little prospect of competitors overtaking PHE. As an example SGH2 are not due to have a commercial unit operating for about two years by which time I would expect most of the Peel DMG units to have been built. In any case it is worth noting that in most cases the target feedstock is not unrecycable plastic so it would not be a case of direct competition for feedstock. Not that the feedstock PHE would be using is in short supply so it could support a number of companies.
Thanks for that Stokey 12 .Price comparisons are near impossible due to changes in exchage rates and sizes of plant but £5-8 /kg for PHE seems very high compared to $2 (£1.6 @ 1.22$/£) for SGH2 (claimed) and $5-3 for Ways2H . For ME ,it does underline the absolute urgency that the PHE/ W2T merger and the completion of funding of the FOAK DMG MUST be done ASAP (if not sooner) or other competitors will overtake us.
Fort Hunter Liggett.......... Twitter site, no talk of any power cuts..............
More Microgrid information.........................
https://microgridknowledge.com/military-microgrid-fort-hunter-liggett/
Don't think Fort Hunter Liggett base will use Way2H
It had about 27 buildings that needed power up grading..............
Published on 27 Dec 2011...............................................907 views
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IE63s1zW-gU
High cost to transport waste stock to site for testing the system.......
Fort Hunter Liggett is one of the least-densely populated Army bases in the nation, housing only about 250 permanent Army and civil personnel. During training seasons, however, this number can climb up to around 4,000 residents.
High fixed costs for 10 tonne per day.................
10-tonne-per-day........................
https://usarsustainabilitydotcom.files.wordpress.com/2017/11/fort-hunter-liggett-solid-waste-program-and-waste-gasification-system-for-fixed-installation-on-site-distributed-generation.pdf
Site location since 4 December 2019...........DYOR
https://www.google.com/maps/place/Fort+Hunter+Liggett/@35.9970867,-121.2367871,1264m/data=!3m1!1e3!4m5!3m4!1s0x8092eb229548f499:0x285ac595d895540d!8m2!3d36.0086825!4d-121.2369266
Operastar - In relation to your 17.35 post hydrogen using the PHE technology is expected to be in the £5-8 range. I am not sure who will be setting the price.
The feedstock is shredded and dried...................
This process is already carried out in UK, waste dried prior to transport to be burned in the nuclear power stations.....................DYOR
https://www.eia.gov/energyexplained/biomass/waste-to-energy.php
Its funding was raised last July to vet the system...........
Breakthrough Energy Ventures may already have PHE on it's watch list?
https://www.bizjournals.com/sacramento/news/2019/07/29/davis-based-sierra-energy-raises-33-million.html
The Way2H tech seems roughly similar to PHE apart from the use of the "ceramic beads" . One point I do remember about the PHE method is that the feedstock is first "out gassed" in a near vacume chamber before entering the gasification chamber. This means little or no air contamination .I have not seen this mentioned in other methods. The SGH2 is completely different ,using a quite old method of much higher temperature (3500-4000deg compared to PHE 1000deg C) produced by plasma torches. It still seems to be favoured by American firms. I remember this was tried at a plant in the UK in the North East on a very large scale plant, but did not come to fruition. Another project also tried it backed by W2T but also folded when the first one failed.
Jabberba .Can you remind me what the cost per Kg of hydrogen is predicted. Thanks