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On the specialised tests aspect. The lab at hvivo would almost certainly be able to do this and much more as they will be monitoring large panels of biomakers during trials and also doing what is needed during patient selection screening. Lost of commercial tests out that can measure nucleocapsid and spike antibodies and classification of antibodies igm vs igg as an example. Quite a few commercial and in house assays for looking at t cell response now also. Fascinating stuff
.."special tests , which are either not normally done or, at least, AFAICS not disclosed..."
particularly - call me a cynic - if that might muddy the consensus narrative.
.."I think there are plenty of people under 35 who've not had it. My wife and I are both under 35 and neither of us have had it. I genuinely don't know that many people that have..."
One of the problems is that you wouldn't necessarily know, infection can be asymptomatic and can also take many unexpected forms : I had a first ever case of 'chilblains' last year - I'm in my mid 60s - and chanced to discuss a few weeks later with a family member doctor. I 'd been sufficiently curious to have taken some photos.
'Oh' !' was the immediate reply, 'that looks like 'covid toes'. Which apparently 'normally' only afflicts the young.
See https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-58801462
This report https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/healthandsocialcare/conditionsanddiseases/articles/coronaviruscovid19latestinsights/antibodies
says "The presence of antibodies to COVID-19 suggests that a person has previously had the infection or been vaccinated. In the week beginning 3 January 2022, the percentage of adults that would have tested positive for antibodies is estimated to be 98.0% in England... of these 78.6% state that they've had 3 (or more) jabs."
You and your family and acquaintances might all have 'dodged a bullet' but the numbers suggest otherwise : the younger and later-vaccinated are just more likely to find themselves in the inadvertent, naturally acquired 'herd immunity' camp.
I believe it IS possible to tell from the antibodies whether your immunity is 'natural' (ie via infection) or acquired (via vaccination), but this needs special tests , which are either not normally done or, at least, AFAICS not disclosed.
HTH
Exactly, it doesn’t stop all the other challenge models as most people have previous infections for all the other viruses in circulation.
I think one area that all chims in coronaviruses area will struggle with is true naive patients that have not been infected or vaccinated. Infected will have antibodies against spike and nucleocapsid and those immunised spike only. T cells will be another area in both cohorts. However this should be an issue as this is likely in flu and rsv studies equally. Most vaccines and drugs wil be used on likely highly exposed vianinfection or vaccination anyway. Imho
I think there are plenty of people under 35 who've not had it. My wife and I are both under 35 and neither of us have had it. I genuinely don't know that many people that have.
I’d like to think so to. I not sure how we’re going to find any person under 35 in the UK who hasn’t had Covid 19, Alpha, Delta or Omicron variant. I suppose OO can still go ahead with Challenge trials even if the subjects have had Covid because the drug companies will still need to test their new vaccines out for many many years to come just as they do with the Influenza trials. every person in the world over 20 has probably already had Influenza yet there plenty of trials OO do for Influenza. So I would hope companies are queuing up to to get their slots with OO for Covid work?
Morning Moni
I personally see this as a positive. It finally looks like Covid HTCs are going ahead. Offord might be running this one (with ORPH's challenge agent - and potentially trial and recruitment support too) but ORPH remains the only commercial option currently. There is going to be a lot of pharmas wanting to test products against covid... I'm hoping to see ORPH contract RNSs soon (soon being somewhat flexible, obviously ;-)
OO isn't a covid play.
That said the fact that new studies are still being funded into a virus that's now widely accepted as little more than a common cold shows that there's still money to be made from it.
That others are running studies alongside Hvivo is of little consequence. People still buy shares in Waitrose despite that there's also Tescos, Sainsburys and Morrisons available.
Hvivo has decades of information in its catalogue and nobody will ever catch up with that.
Let's also not forget that we are already booked up and paid for through to 2023. Anything else announced until then is a bonus.
What's not to like? This is still as cheap as chips IMO.
Oxford have stolen our thunder by getting in first it appears on the headlines?
https://apple.news/AcnTjB-1AQXO8wFrEmRzXuA
Not sure Hvivo will be able to find many young volunteers that haven’t already had Covid, seeing as they’re all going to night clubs, bars, football matches and taking little precautions? Why would they if they aren’t worrying about catching Covid.
Tbc, ‘ours’ as in ‘the one our focus group is discussing’…..
Thanks, guys.
The key sentence,from the politico link
..” The two U.K. studies are using the original Wuhan strain of the virus synthesized by hVIVO in London. While Imperial College and hVIVIO are studying people who haven't previously been infected, Oxford University is examining those who have previously caught the virus...”
Ours is the naive , hence riskier group. So on the face of it , a bigger ethical hurdle.
AIUI.
Yes and Helen McShane has worked and published alongside Catchpole, and the Wellcome/Imperial folk from the beginning. This trial is certainly utilising hVivo tech. https://www.nejm.org/doi/pdf/10.1056/NEJMp2106970
Orph not Dvrg. Hvivo apparently were involved in producing the Covid strain for both the Oxford and Hvivo studies back in Sept 2021
Today's article I believe is being conducted by Hvivo. Look at the two articles below. Helen Mcshane is mentioned in both and Andrew Catchpole in the first.
https://www.ox.ac.uk/news/2022-01-26-volunteers-needed-human-challenge-trial-study-immune-response-covid-19
https://www.politico.eu/article/uk-coronavirus-challenge-trials-volunteers/