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Supercharger, you do need to familiarise yourself with Marstons debt position. It is all very well adopting a blase' attitude towards loans which have to be repayed, £350m in 2023. The rates are fixed on the majority and Marstons, you may have noticed obtained changes to Loan note undertakings in May. Add to this the temporary facility of £70m due for repayment in November, and you consider it an irrelevance. You may have shares at NIL cost , but do try to understand the mechanics of Marston's Financial position. Without the Carlsberg deal there could be real trouble. To disregard the PUBs as unimportant is ludicrous when the BOD have made it clear they intend to Focus on Operational Excellence within the Pub and Accommodation Business post Brewery separation.
Why any serious investor regards the current situation with laughter beggars belief.
My comments regarding investment strategy is Marstons related. I am sorry if you find any personal comments directed towards me not as amusing as I do, as I know I should not but I enjoy defending myself not that I need to.
Negative rates were referred to as a possibility by BOE today this will mean the cost of loans will be reduced and even loans in place can be refinanced. Marstons are very experienced in this already. However the BOE is also trying to increase growth and inflation which will be difficult where so many are now unemployed. The Govt is also trying to help businesses and I see this as a tremendous opportunity not only for Marstons as well as other businesses taken a hit in the pandemic but an investors opportunity where shares such as this are way below the value to me. I look forward also with some hope for some very uplifting sales figures from Marstons as we know they were registered on the Govt. support pubs scheme and so this is one very good investment in my opinion whilst the climb towards the mid 50ps will hopefully gain momentum back towards GBP1 a share. Fingers crossed. Very happy to hold this share and to invest some more later too.
@Supercharger
Genuinely delighted to hear how well you are doing for yourself.
Just hope that your stated trading/investment income is more accurate than your oft stated number of pubs you believe MARS own.
If not you will be paying more tax to HMRC than necessary.
Other than that, any chance we can keep this board to Marstons please ?
My money does very well invested in the stock market thanks which is why the prices will keep rising and rising when interest rates will be negative. I am afraid you need to refocus. I am doing very nicely thanks which is why I retired early as I do not have to work, all of this to me is just a bit of fun and not to be taken too seriously. I make more money investing my own funds than working for someone else, or paying bank to do so.
Nice little trickle up today on most of my shares and this is likely to continue for some time yet. Good luck those invested like me in some choice shares such as Marstons. My godfather looking down in us will be pleased with today's rise. Fairtrader what other shares does your ultimate wisdom suggest I invest in as you are so confident in your own decision making?
"I can see it coming, and who cares how many pubs............"
Supercharge cannot believe your mentor was a Company Secretary,
Carlsberg care very much about our pubs ven if you do'nt. Read the JV it will be an education.
As far as Amazon is concerned suggest you ask Traders who use their Portal. It may be another outlet but similar to Supermarkets margins are wafer thin.
If the BOE do introduce negative rates it will have little effect on Marstons Loans as the vast majority (£890m ) are fixed. Average rate being just over 5%, the remain are floating at rates LIBOR +. So no saving there as you infer.
The losers will be people like you who will be required to pay the Bank to have money on deposit.
Do read up and stop this fake news.
I can see it coming, and who cares how many pubs when the deal with Amazon is most likely going to to worth a whole lot more. Any worries from the moaners when the share price is rising will be lost according to BBC news if the BOE does bring in negative interest rates!! What we now all get paid for taking out loans - I think I will buy a pub myself!! Happy days!!
Daave, it is indeed really good to get your input, especially as you are "at the coalface" and not a saloon bar commentator, you see exactly what is/has been going on.
You caught me there with the New River Reit/Hawthorn deal, I never saw an rns on that but I did recall something, and looking it up I see that Hawthorn, who manage NRR's pub portfolio, bought 29 pubs in January 2020, which the news at the time did not have a price for the deal. I think Findlay mentioned the sale in his post results run through on debt reduction. Not a huge number of pubs but it all fits in with the picture we have been looking at.
As a matter of interest Hawthorn, after the Marstons & Bravo deal, hold over 700 pubs a size which surprised me.
For sure Marstons Pub Estate will be made up of differing tenures, leased,tenanted, manged houses and no doubt any number of hybrid agreements.
What is certain whatever other experts say we do not have 2000.
Daave it is good to get your input. Are you a manager or tenant?
How is the change of ownership working for you and customers? Better or worse than previous?
I just saw the mention of 2000 pubs, before the 137 deal last year, they sold a fair chunk before this (to Heineken I think) a year or two ago.. ‘2000 pubs’ sounds like the number from before that sale.. 1400 sounds right at the minute!
If I remember right, they sold some buildings at some point m on the basis that they would rent them back.. I’m not 100% if this was many pubs or just a select few.
I don’t think the 137 and the ones sold to new river/Hawthorne are in the 1400 I’m fairly sure it was closer to 1600 when I saw the company details when I signed contracts etc.
Either way, they own a substantial amount of pubs split across varied ‘sectors’ of the pub sector, various revenue streams,
The pubs they sold were nearly all sites where the venues had struggled to keep the businesses viable, either due to location, the availability of customers or the tenants abilities to maximise the business,
Problem sites that needed more attention to get them up to par than would ever be worth investing from their business model
Apparently, selling off these pubs increased the profitability of their entire estate by 2% Which doesn’t I totally seem much but when you take a step back it’s a pretty big deal.
Sorry if this is somewhere within the below - i looked and couldnt find it.
Does anybody know when the next update is due?
@Daave
I did get the 1400 number from their website & they sort of break that up by saying they have 500 local pubs, 200 pubs with food, and "about 400 pubs in our tenanted estate"
So I guess that is about as close as we can get to precise numbers, they have Pitcher/Piano's , not many 18, and a few Revere hotel/pubs. The website is not updated massively regularly so it is not impossible that the 137 which went to Admiral for £44.9mill are still included in that 1400 figure, but whether or not they are we have to be about as right as we can be with the numbers off their site.
I run one of those pubs that was sold last year!
The number of pubs they own will be broken down into ‘leased and tenanted’ and ‘managed houses’ and possibly ‘partnership agreements’
There are more aspects to the pub estate than the general public are aware of,
I don’t know the breakdown off the top of my head but the information is out there:
Marstons sold 140(ish) pubs to Admiral Taverns last November and then sold a further amount of pubs to another company between December and January, these were A selection of the lower performing pubs and ones that only generated ‘wet’ income for the brand, - the money forum the sale was intended to be spent of paying off 200,000,000 of their (at the time) £1.8 billion debt.
All of this is public, and available on various press releases from between November and today
Chatting to UK distro’s today and had great feedback on the ‘Taste the difference’ IPA sales. Pleasantly surprised they branded to the supermarket name but still left the brewers name on main label. Brand reputation is going strong and this is a prime example of supermarket and brewer working together. Tried myself today and can tell which ones they are clearly. Great move MARS this will do well.
Afterall the only reason for the shorts was the closing down process due to the fears of the Pandemic but for a month or two now all / if not most of Marstons outlets have been open. In fact with signing up with Amazon and no doubt other online retailers the possibility is that their sales figs for the past three Months have been increasing on the Ist qtr. So sensibly the shorters who are not stupid have been reducing and no doubt having to buy back or repay their loan stock.
Hi All, regular viewer, new poster.
Interesting to see that both shorters (Citadel and GLG) reduced their short position on 24th), not that suprising for Citadel who have regularly changed position, but GLG have held since March and reduced by 0.19% of company. Hopefully there is a fight to buy back between them.
All property values are subjective and I will leave that to those far more qualified to value than me. I did not buy or inherit shares in the largest Premium Beer Brewer in the Uk to worry about that. I look forward more to the most recent sales figures which will have more of an effect on price and the recovery what with some more positive news such as regarding the suggested distribution Company formation that should make the market recovery rebound positively. We already know the Uks retails figs are back to pre-pandemic levels - and wait in anticipation.
I see Marstons now sell Beer in various forms of outlet it seems :- Pubs.Motels.Wine bars,supermarkets, online and recently Amazon. All bases covered -good on them, one of the great survivors I.M.H.O & a strong buy.buy.buy!!
Does this affect your dealings? In fact those that borrow become richer, those that do not don't where inflation is set to rise and reduced debts in real terms. What is the price of money at the moment? Do you feel at 0% interest or thereabouts this is a problem? I am not distracted the market price for Marstons fell due to the Pandemic and fallen sales, not before the lockdown based on debts owed? Infact I seemed to remember a statement coming out regarding funding was in place to cover Marston's for some considerable time in the future even if the Pandemic lock down continued -which it hasn't.
Supercharge, we have a floating and, it seems, an in determinate number of Pubs, it appears your 2000 count is a spurious figure. We cannot count every corner shop that sells Estrella as you consider it is brewed by Marstons!!!
Against this accountancy nightmare, do you know the level of debt and the various repayment dates. Including temporary facilities?
. Is it likely current sales will provide margin to cover the imminent short term borrowings?
What we need Bar child is a up to date sales figures. i.e. how many Sales have been made after re-opening, we all know the sales were affected after lock down (which is reflected in the current share price fall from over £1. Once we can see the full on sales figs this can be broken down into an analysis of current performance. You cannot guess in this one I am afraid but I am hopefully once released we will have a steep rise in share price whether sales are to their own pubs or to supermarkets. To be honest I have been topping up and am very happy already with my investment and will not be selling in the short term i.e. for the next year or so but look forward to seeing us back over 80 to 100p a share in the shorter term -hopefully!!
Supercharger
I am sure we are all aware that Marstons sell to supermarkets.
However they are supermarkets and pubs are pubs.
Can we keep on subject please ?
I was hoping you might have been happy that I was aware of what is on the Mars website, but now you are saying that they may not know how many pubs they own ?
We are also aware that they supply other pubs which they do not own, but then they do not appear on their balance sheet do they ?
All I am trying to do is to attempt to assess what the plc is worth after liabilities have beeb deducted from assets, and their likely cash flow evaluated
Why should I want the share price to fall ?
I really do not understand where you are coming from. I am supposing that most posters on this board wish to evaluate facts rather than try to puff the share price up or down.
When you own 1400 Pubs/Lodges call them what you will, the total number of Marstons Estate items will change, however so will the total no. supplied by Marstons that they do not own. When I heard Mr Ralph F. speaking on one occasion I am sure he referred to actually over 2,000 pubs being supplied (a brewer does not have to own all their own Pubs they only show the no. on the accounts owned by the Estate). i.e. If you added in all the Supermarkets they supplied in the Uk the Total of outlets would easily exceed 2,000. Who knows the exact no. who cares this is one Company at a big discount at the current time. One I will continue to buy and invest in. Good luck if you want the share price to fall but in less than three months I am sure we will be over £80-1.00 a share. Perhaps Andrew Andrea -can you you the exact no. if you want the accounts to be exact. However their time will be limited at the moment finalising the deal with Carlsberg.
Supercharger
I do indeed consult the Marstons website which says, amongst many other things, that they "own around 1400 pubs".
You, I recall, have mentioned the number of 2000 at least twice.
Where are the other 600 please?
Also has the website been updated since they sold a bunch of them at a loss late last year ?
This board really should be about facts, don't you agree?
My Godfather is I regret no longer with us, he was a Captain in the Army before serving and creating Marstons from a previous Company. However what I have said is the truth in that he was a very upright and straight individual and held the Marstons Board in great esteem. They are a very professional group of individuals. I only quote facts today that I obtain from official sources. You may wish to visit the Marstons web site sometime. However I would very much like to see the sales pick up released from Marstons as I am sure most will be surprised. Lets wait and see but I see tremendous upside here.
Fiona
Thanks for that insight, appreciated.