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Cantango...I agree with you re the debt position which is why I remain invested . The point I was making was the apparent behaviours of the market in general , not what you and I believe . I do think the market will catch up , and yes the share price will no doubt pick up as the dividend approaches ..frequently a zero sum game though , as the share price often falls by the amount of the dividend
I also agree that the RCF is a back up facility rather than a loan , interest rates are high though , and you only need a double whammy of commodity prices falling ,capex significantly overspending ( already increased from £272 million to £340 million I think , and the picture becomes less favourable. Add into the mix an uncontrollable factor , like lightening , power cuts or political interference and the risks become clear and evident
All companies carry risk though , but the difference regards Kenmare is that they commence this transition period with a cash positive balance sheet , and operations which generate lots of cash too ...and they can vary the dividends up or down
For me though , in the absence of all other things remaining equal , my view remains that Kenmare is significantly under valued , and the illiquidity of the shares compounds the problem
OK, thanks. So well nigh impossible for holders in my position or you with your SIPP.....
Yes plus aegis before Christmas… had a look this morning and titanium prices seem to be moving up again
Great to have a new name of the significant shareholding list.
I hope you are going to keep buying…
Fingers crossed 🤞🏻 the selling is over and we see continued SP appreciation into ex-div date.
Good Luck to everyone, including our new friends pageant Investments Limited.
Interactive investor say their Nom Co may be able to provide me with advice but they cannot request it.
Jeremy Dibb told me how to get certificate of residence which I have - and was simple.
Getting other documents from Interactive Investor is easy, simple request over app.
I’m waiting for next Dividend to request IWT for last 4 years before claiming.
I’ll try the Nom for SIPP then but honestly not hopeful.
Contango - thanks for that, very helpful. Apologies if you think I am being pedantic but I want to have as much information as possible before challenging HSBC/Kenmare/Irish Tax Authorities. I'm also sure there will be a number of people on here keen to hear your thoughts/advice.
Like part of your holding, mine is through a Nom Co. If Jeremy Dibb can assist, why don't you go down that route with your SIPP position.
I guess what I'm asking is, is it well nigh impossible to reclaim it if not held in an individual account?
Thanks
It is simple for my ISA as it is an individual account. My SIPP is not possible as it is held through a nominee account and tax is aggregated hence I will sell my SIPP position first.
Apologies, simple is unfair…. It is simple if your provider can give you an individual statement showing IWT paid, then it is a simple submission and reclaim.
If you phone Jeremy Dibb he can assist as he has successfully reclaimed them.
Https://www.kenmareresources.com/en/investors/shareholder-information/dividends
My holdings through HSBC. I tried a few years ago and they weren't at all helpful. I think I'll have another go at them. I'd be interested to know if anyone on here has been able to claim it back, especially Cont, seeing he reckons its simple. Maybe I'm going about it the wrong way.
Onwards - Many thanks. I was hoping for a new route other than having to set up an EI tax reference. Save it for a rainy day!!
Saga - far from "simple". Good luck !!!!
https://www.revenue.ie/en/companies-and-charities/documents/dwt/dwt-claim-for-refund.pdf
Con - Which website?
Agree on illiquid markets…. Have stated I expect a strong upward more before ex-div date.
Totally disagree with debt… it is a RCF to ensure the project is not constrained by balance sheet cash and that dividends can continue to be paid as WCP mines its way to new location.
The company will not use the full facility and it will be very lowly leveraged with small net debt position at worst.
If you are UK based you can reclaim the Irish Withholding tax. There is a link on the website. You need proof of dividend and IWT paid plus proof of residence in the UK, it is simple.
The illiquid market is a double edged coin ..just as the price falls disproportionately during a selling cycle , it will also rise disproportionately during a buying cycle , so from this point of view , you just have to be patient and wait for sentiment to reverse itself
The key thing with Kenmare is the fundamentals ..at today's prices there are generous dividends on offer, yet they only take up around 30% of after tax profits .
Yes there are the usual macro economic factors to consider , but I think the level of debt that they will be taking on in the next few years is making investors a little cautious
The one element that angers me and prevents me from investing more into Kenmare is the 25% withholding tax on dividends from the Irish Government ...this is a huge deterrent for shareholders to take on the equity risk with this company....does anyone know, why the hell they registered the company in Ireland in the first place ..on the face of it , a very shareholder unfriendly decision to make
For me though , the long term fundamentals seem good, and the capex is to boost productive capacity so the spend is well worth it.
Time will tell
Worth a read on bloomberg business (free to sign up) - John Authers "Magnificent or Marxist? Passive investing is back on trial" .. both reassuring and alarming but explains why value managers/stocks like KMR are in the doldrums
Which funds hold Kenmare to any significance though?
Fund managers of open ended funds hold many shares and choose which of them to sell, they don't have to sell KMR, and why would they?
Individual shareholders are of course a difference kettle of fish.
Some of the long term holders are funds that investors can extract their investment. As investors take funds out the fund has to reduction holdings across their portfolio. As interest rates rise sone investors are taking investments out of these growth funds to invest in bonds etc.
As a result some KMR share holders have to make small reductions in their KMR shareholding.
The impact of this in an illiquid market is a depressed share price.
My opinion is the board need to do bring to bring in new investors to stabilise the share price, such as the capital markets day and investor tour but they need to be more active in public.
Outflows I imagine - trouble with the illiquidity at KMR is funds have to sell when the price rises to reduce risk and positions (the unpopular share buy back) and will have to sell as outflows bite i.e. currently.
Make sense apart from: Funds getting smaller and need to sell
what funds?
On the investment from SGRF, they plus a number of other supporters stated that they wanted capital returns within 5 years. The board and shareholders (that remember) were aware of this.
I wish I sold my, but didn’t, so it’s my fault.
Why is the share price low:
Chinese economy and real estate decline.
Lower GDP growth
Funds getting smaller and need to sell
Illiquid market to sell into, coupled with point immediately above.
If you stay around long enough you will see it rise prior to the dividend announcement, as it always does.
Enough for tonight 🥃
There must be a hidden elephant in the room somewhere ..thus far I have only uncovered an idiot in the board room buying back shares on borrowed money earmarked for future capital spending
Thanks all for your responses ...in no particular order
1. Interest rate on loan is SOFA ( currently 5.31% plus 4.85% = 10.16%
2. I thought I read that there were ,$30 million of share buy backs planned so that is where the $3 million per year came from
Not a growth company ? Check out financial analysis on HL Website
Revenue has increased year by year , doubling from $262 million in 2018 to $525 million in 2023..
Over this period profits have increased from $50 million to $206 million
Net assets have increased from $890 million to $1.1 billion
The borrowings are to fund new Capex to secure production for next 50 years ...not to pay operating costs
Share buy backs are rarely an efficient use of funds
There are occasions where it is . Where a company or investment trust is winding down it's operations ..
None of these scenarios apply to Kenmare ...just ask yourself ..on the one hand buy back shares costing I think $30 million on the other hand , set up an RCF for $200 million at 10 % interest ....how can that be a sensible transaction ?
Sounds to me like the left hand doesn't know what the right hand is doing
There must be a hidden reason why this share is so cheap ..a reason that isn't implied by the information held in the public domain .. a company with a market cap of just £263 million pound , with £900 million of assets , trading at a PE ratio of 1.75
Markets rarely get it this wrong , so what is going on
Correct, share buy back part of long term plan to return capital to shareholders. This is not news.
The new debt is 4.85% above SOFR closer to 10% but not 10% either I don’t believe.
£3m per year to grow what??? Cash available but not growth opportunities. Any growth would be WCP D Willis would be hundreds of millions not 3
The debt facility funds the move using RCF so reduced interest versus a standard debt facility where you pay interest on 100% of available facility there a reasonable move.
They are not a growth company - they are a cash generating machine. The share buy backs were likely a strategy enforced by major shareholders which made sense to them at the time.
Correction
Should have read
Candid quotes 3 million a year interest
But according to Rns only 1.15 million a year
( 23.6x4.85%interest =1.15 million) not 3 million why the big difference