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P.S.
I was shocked that FRANKIE GOT ...OFF THE MAIN FORUM AT KDNC.
I read it one day via Bannor post to say that Frankie had gone.
No wonder why MANY WILL NO LONGER POST.
Observer842.
If you say it is out of kindness, then do not kindly use "challenge". If that was said in the supermarket to a stranger, I dare not think what will happen if the chap is 6 foot 5 and looks like a heavy weight boxer. Nor use it on the boss for obvious reasons.
As for "false" that has 2 meanings, one , at the bottom of the page could mean that it is "misleading" or "legal" implications. THERE IS NOTHING FALSE about not up to the minute on shipping iron ore stockpile dates. HOW CAN THAT BE FALSE? KDNC SAY 12 MTHS, NOW ITS 18 MTHS. There are so many interview from KDNC and Mr Alan Green so where can I be taking my info from except from these? NO HARM DONE IF ITS NOT 18 MONTHS BUT 17 MTHS KINDA OF THING.
THERE WILL BE AN RNS SHORTLY TO UPDATE SHAREHOLDERS SO AT THAT POINT, IN BLACK AND WHITE WE WILL ALL KNOW. Meanwhile, NO ONE CAN SAY IT X OR Y. You say its from 2019, 2021 but an upcoming RNS will be D E F I N I T I V E AS THAT WILL BE FROM THE FINALISATION OF THE AGREEMENT BETWEEN THE BANK CREDITORS AND KDNC. KDNC WILL THEN INFORM THAT THEY HAVE TAKEN 20% AND THIS IS THE TIMELINE AND TIME TABLE.
So, using words that are ...do NOT APPEAR FRIENDLY and if to insist, then the only way to resolve it is to go to the FCA first and if not satisfied, then to Court to say News was not right to say its 18 months to ship, it is X....and so forth. No harm if you fancy a day in court although I was told that it would cost £50k when 2 persons fought over a tree in their garden ie neighbours. That would not include COSTS TO WHOEVER LOSES. SO, HOUSE, SHIRT CAN ALL GO.
So, kindly dont say people have put out"false" just because of a DATE WHICH IS IRRELEVANT ANYWAY AT THIS POINT. NO KDNC RNS TO SAY SHIPPING HAS STARTED ONLY FOLKS SPOTTING BOATS AND ALL?
I do not deem it friendly when you say, observer842 you need to "challenge" and then to say that it is true it is "false" that the date is X, and not y.
It happens all over forums and KIND PEOPLE JUST TELL OTHERS THE LATEST DATES ETC BUT NEVER POST I CHALLENGE YOUR DATE AND IT IS FALSE- my word- post that on the main forum KDNC and see what happens.
No, not kind at all.
News, Sat 6 Mar 2021.
For some reason, both of us are going on about share price of tomorrow - today it is 19p or thereabouts and DESPITE TWITTER, KDNC FORUM, NO ONE HAS RUSHED IN.
There is a chap that follows me and he is a Tier 1 holder of some co8s. He bought in at 5p area or when he posted it was around that. HE NEVER TWEETS ABOUT IT THESE DAYS. He has not taken a Tier 1 position.
You should convince him LoL to get back in.
DONT WORRY, PEOPLE WILL RUSH IN IF IT IS GOOD VIA RNS.
Sat, 6 Mar 2021.
OK, I am off and will not post anymore on KDNC. I will follow my own rules from now on. ADMIN TOLD ME TO FILTER AND I T
@news. May I ask you to do one thing as a favour. Take a deep breath, get a cup of your favourite brew, and sit down and slowly read what I have written on here since Monday - just my posts, and assume that I was trying to help. Read with a smile if you like, I tend to post with one as it helps with the mood I find. I was trying to help with your understanding, but I think you misinterpreted something I said and thought I was attacking you. I wasn't. Peace out! :-)))))
P.S.
Its a pity observer842 that this conversation should have taken so many pages.
I should have asked Cause17 and Bannor in the 1st place as they articulated the answer very well in a direct answer.
No, NO NEGATIVITY AT ALL - WE, ALL JUST WANT TO WAIT TILL THE RNS COMES OUT AND THAT IS WHAT IS ON TWITTER #KDNC, ADVFN and ALL THOSE ON THE MAIN KDNC FORUM EXCEPT THE VERY FEW THAT WANT TO INSIST.
ITS A MATTER OF ONE*S POSITION - if one has shares what does it matter anyway?
Its only to decide whether to add, that*s all.
So, I have decided not to add.
I said that I dont like iron ore projects and have never invested in any iron ore co.
Nothing wrong with that.
If you both feel that you are going to be MILLIONAIRES @ KDNC at £5-£10 that is your own position, view so NO NEED TO CONVINCE ME or others who will have their own ideas.
Ta.Ta.
News, Sat 6 Mar 2021.
RESOLUTION FOR SELF: NEVER GO TO A LONELY SHARE FORUM SITE.
2] NEVER TAKE ANY THING FURTHER TO ASK OR REPLY AS IT IS OF NO USE IE TO AND FRO.
3] SEE IF THE FORUM IS FRIENDLY AND ONE HAS FRIENDS, IF NO AVOID.
4] DO NOT REPLY AS IT IS JUST TO .... AS HAS HAPPENED.
O.K NEXT TIME, I WILL LEARN THE NEW RULES FOR MYSELF.
All those that are nice, polite and friendly and not go on, thank you as its enjoyable listening to some common sense folks especially in the investing profession who are more nuanced. Pity there is NO BROKER NOTE that is recent or up to date on KDNC on the new Amapa direction and their share projection, FCA licenced. I would have like to have read Hannan, Tier 1 London investments bankers with a specialist metals section. Always worth the read or SP Angel?
Yes, I was trying to educate you out of kindness, as you have educated me plenty over the years. Apologies if it hasn't come across this way. As to my estimates, if it plays in our favour then I'll be quite disappointed we aren't over £5 a share when Amapa is at full production.
LoL
You are doing it out of kindness, Observer842 to correct everything?
Ah no, do not miss what I said: I said that for now, KDNC has put out via an RNS that iron ore is US$60 per ton via their modelling. Until that changes via FURTHER FORWARD GUIDANCE IN AN RNS. In the meantime, I said to EyeGuy, lets TAKE DOUBLE at US$120 per tonne for now and NOT at the full price of US$176/t for 62% fe. As far as I am aware KDNC NEVER GAVE OUT OFFICIAL FIGURES OF THEIR ANTICIPATED COST FOR AMAPA IRON ORE - so how folks say it is less than $30, I am not sure. That Portugese article on the Amapa railway said the "INTERNAL COST OF AMAPA IRON ORE IS HIGH AT us$70." This is in relation to mentioning that when ZAMIN TOOK OVER , IRON ORE PRICE FELL TO $40-how did he go bust then?
FOR THE AVOIDANCE OF DOUBT, I HAVE BEEN SUPPORTIVE OF REM AND THE FOUNDER and I feel that REM had a bright future given Sonora and Cinovec which was an astute investment by the Founder of REM, now called KDNC.
However, during the bear commodity cycle esp lithium, KDNC had to sell down their 20% BCN shares re: Sonora and now have the 30% JV.
So, I FEEL THAT THIS NEW DIRECTION INTO AMAPA IS ONE WHICH I DID NOT INVEST IN AND ONE IN WHICH I WOULD LIKE TO SEE MY WAY LIKE EVERYONE ELSE. No point shutting discussion down as on another site, they are also ASKING THE SAME THING.
So, both of you would have to go over to that site to EDUCATE THEM OR SPREAD YOUR KINDNESS. As for kindness, I asked you a question Observer842 and you just ignore me.
SO, IN THE FUTURE, IF YOUR FORECAST DOES NOT COME IN AT £5-10 FOR KDNC SHARE PRICE, @49% OWNERSHIP OF AMAPA IRON ORE PROJECT AT FULL PRODUCTION, THAT WILL OR COULD BE YOUR C.V.
As for me, I do not make FORECASTS of share prices-KIRAN MOZARIA HIMSELF IN HIS LATEST INTERVIEW DID NOT SAY ANYTHING LIKE WHAT YOU ARE FORECASTING, OR EYEGUY*S IS SAYING. He thinks it is ...but DID NOT SAY X PRICE ETC.
On the main forum, I note that ANSWERS ARE NOT PROVIDED EXCEPT TO PASS ...COMMENT which does not help the compelling case for KDNC.
Its a NEW DIRECTION AND EVERYONE WANTS TO KNOW.
I saw Ivybush*s name pop up recently but no further posts. PENSIONPOT who with Isdeer from REM plc days at 0.04p days has also disappeared. I think the forum if not friendly any more will not attract posters from old to post anymore.
LoL-I see that you are posting reams from all the pages of the Sonora project and filling up the forum like of old when one one asks a question.
VERY SUCCESSFUL SHARE HAVE A FRIENDLY NOTE AND EVERYONE IS ASKING AND LOTS OF NICE REPLIES that helps everyone.
I END WITH NO IT HAS NOT BEEN HELPFUL TO ME. ON THE MAIN FORUM, 2 PEOPLE HAVE REPLIED TO MY QUESTION AND I AM VERY HAPPY WITH THAT. IT IS A VERY CLEAR ANSWER WITH CAVEATS AND MAKES THE DISTINCTION BETWEEN THE us$10m profit allowed and that is a differential from the rest plus the agreement not signed yet.
So, no, it has not been helpful to me if its jus
I think this does over £1 on the 27%. cant see it not tbh
Perhaps @Eyeguy. I've got a fair few filters on, so hopefully I've caught most. The way I'm hoping this plays (THIS IS MY SPECULATIVE HOPE/OPINION) is that if iron ore prices, shipping and exchange rates are similar to today's when we take 20% we rise to around 60-70p raising to £1+ on 27% news and further project developments. Eventually rising to £5+ on 49% news (especially if this is achieved by selling an asset rather than dilution) and during the ramp up to or at full production. Nice to have a vision, but I'm not so naive to know it could play out horribly for us as it did when lithium dipped heavily a few years ago. Iron ore could dive below $40/t for instance. We can never know. Just fingers crossed we sign the deal imminently to take advantage of the current economic environment! :-))))
Obs- my gut feeling is 3 or possibly 4 of the main “longtermers” on the main BB are spreadbetting long and short swings. Anything they say must be taken with the proverbial pinch of salt.
I have been doing these boards for years and I can spot them a mile off lol
@EyeGuy:
===[
news- just to be clear no one including me is asking you to buy or sell shares in kdnc or other shares for that matter.
I am posting my opinion and showing my workings. if you believe we should use the $61 price of iron ore and base your price predictions on that then that's up to you. However imo it would be pointless to do that particularly as shipping starts any time and they will be getting almost 3 x that from each shipment. but again if you want to use $61 then that's your call fella.
]===
100% agree.
@News. There is no one on the other board that doubts what @EyeGuy and me have been trying to tell you: That shipping CAN commence before the agreement with the banks has been finalised - whether it WILL is another matter. We were trying to help you to understand why you were wrong on this matter (you are correct on so many other matters as you a well informed poster) in order for you to improve your understanding of the Amapa situation, which hopefully following our discussions you now have - neither me or EyeGuy have anything to gain in doing this, other than trying to help another poster, it's called kindness. :-)))
I really hope that explains why we kept at it, and as you say: peace out ;-)
Ob.
EyeGuy
OK, I think that between you and I, that is fair.
You have an interpretation of Dev and the difference in the shipping as you said.
You are also aware that others on the main KDNC forum are not of this opinion of which I now find is the same as theirs.
Since you are reasonable to say that I go with the official guidance from KDNC, that*s fine.
I am also listening to what Goldman Sachs says and what other CEO*s say in listed iron ore co*s that are big etc.
So, we end well and peace out.
News, Sat 6 Mar 2021.
Future? We have to wait to see when things become more clear. Those who bought at 5p would have more room but I did not buy KNDC shares at 5p in more recent times. From more experience having gone through a lot of rodeos, these days, I do not jump at making a call but rather wait and see attitude as things change quickly. That way I dont get over-exposed?
Thank you.
news- just to be clear no one including me is asking you to buy or sell shares in kdnc or other shares for that matter.
I am posting my opinion and showing my workings. if you believe we should use the $61 price of iron ore and base your price predictions on that then that's up to you. However imo it would be pointless to do that particularly as shipping starts any time and they will be getting almost 3 x that from each shipment. but again if you want to use $61 then that's your call fella.
lOSE MY LIFE SAVINGS.
SO, THAT IS WHAT BOTH OF YOU ARE TRYING TO SAY-YOU ARE RIGHT.
IF SO, I OR OTHERS WOULD BE DRAWING MORE SAVINGS TO PUT INTO KDNC ON WHAT YOU SAY AND BELIEVE TO BE RIGHT AND THAT NO ONE ELSE CAN HAVE THEIR OWN VIEW?
WHY? FIGURES ARE TOO ? KDNC SHARE PRICE IS 19P, MKT CAP £28M.
£5-£10 KDNC SHARE PRICE IS £1.4 BILLION AT £10 @49% SHARE OF AMAPA & AT FULL PRODUCTION WHICH IS YEARS AWAY AND CANNOT BE DONE STRAIGHT AWAY WITHOUT A SCOPING STUDY AND RE-COMMISSIONING.
SO, I AM RIGHT TO BE CAREFUL. I HAVE NOW PUT IT TO THE MAIN KDNC BOARD TO SEE IF OTHERS WILL CONFIRM WHAT BOTH OF YOU SAY.
THUS FAR , NO ONE HAS CONFIRMED ON THE 2 POINTS.
Sat, 6 Mar 2021.
observer842
You said if I thought you were trying to mislead, I will call you out kinda thing.
How can it be misled when NO ONE THINKS THE WAY YOU AND EYEGUY DO?
I say MrJames, an old time poster from REM days prior to name change to KDNC that shipping has NOT STARTED and therefore the MARKET ALSO THINKS SO, HENCE NO ONE IS JUMPING IN WITH THEIR LIFE SAVINGS no matter WHAT YOUR VIEW AND EYEGUY*S IS?
IS IT NOT RIGHT TO BE CAREFUL GIVEN THERE IS NO SHIPPING DESPITE WHAT YOU AND EYEGUY SAY?
IF YOUR INTEPRETATION IS CORRECT AS YOU ONLY BELIEVE, BOTH OF YOUR GOOD SELVES, THEN ITS YOUR VIEW AND NO ONE IS GOING TO CALL YOU OUT OR SAY IT IS "...."s
I AM AFRAID OBSERVER842 THAT YOU AND EYEGUY ARE NOT THE FINAL LEGAL ARBITERS OF THIS LONDON SOUTH EAST FORUM OR THE MODERATORS TO SAY THIS OR THAT WITHOUT AN KDNC RNS [OFFICIAL ANNOUNCEMENT TO THE LONDON STOCK EXCHANGE SAYING THAT WE ARE PLEASED TO INFORM THAT IN ACCORDANCE TO THE ORDER WE ARE GOING TO START SHIPPING OF THE IRON ORE ON X DATE].
YES, IF THERE IS AN OFFICIAL KDNC RNS STATING SHIPPING WILL START ON X DATE IN ACCORDANCE TO THE ..., THEN IT COULD BE SAID IT MAY BE "FALSE" THAT IT CANNOT START SHIPPING.
----------------------NO RNS FROM KDNC TO CONFIRM SHIPPING W I L L START---------------
SO, IT WOULD APPEAR THAT BOTH OF YOU ARE CHARGING AND USING WORDS WITHOUT AN RNS. AS SUCH THAT IS ONLY YOUR VIEW AND EYEGUY BUT N O T MATCHED BY EVIDENCE OF IMMEDIATE EFFECT, S H I P P I N G WILL START OR HAS STARTED RNS?
-----------SO, NOTHING FALSE WITH PERCEPTION THAT MOST FOLKS HAVE , NOT ONLY ME THAT UNTIL THE FINAL SETTLEMENT AGREEMENT WITH THE CREDITOR BANKS HAVE BEEN SIGNED, THEN NO SHIPPING CAN START YET.-------------------
----------MATTER OF LEGAL INTREPRETATION OF PROCEDURAL LEGAL PROCESS. IF NOT CORRECT INTERPRETATION OF MOST OF US, OR SOME OF US, THEN THE KDNC RNS WILL SAY SHIPPING W I L L S TART WITH A DEFINITIVE DATE WITH SHIPPING BOOKED WITH A SHIPPER ETC AND OFF-TAKE TO WHOM?------------------
ITS IS IMPORTANT-----IF BOTH OF YOU ARE RIGHT, PEOPLE WILL BE BUYING KDNC SHARES.
SHARE PRICE IS NOT MOVING AND STILL AT 18.5-19P---------------THE WHOLE MARKET IS WAITING-----------SO NOT ONLY ME THAT THINKS SO-----------IF YOU WANT TO TAKE A COURT CALL OR CALL PEOPLE OUT YOU WOULD HAVE TO TAKE ON THE MARKET MAKERS AS WELL AS TO WHY THEY MAY NOT MARK THE SHARE UP SINCE BOTH OF YOU SAY IT IS GOING TO SHIP AND WE , OTHERS ARE BEING CAUTIOUS TO WAIT UNTIL THAT IS CONFIRMED BY KDNC VIA RNS.-------
HOW CAN THAT BE WRONG TO BE CAREFUL WITHOUT AN RNS OFFICIALLY ISSUED BY KDNC???
HOW CAN YOU BOTH CALL ME OUT, WHEN THE MARKET APPEARS TO THINK SO, HENCE NO ONE JUMPING IN AND SHARE PRICE GOING UP? IN FACT, THE VOLUME IS PRETTY LOW OR LOWIST AND NO MASSIVE VOLUME IF SHIPPING CAN START WITHOUT AN KDNC RNS?
THIS IS A SERIOUS MATTER-IF I WERE TO TAKE YOUR INTERPRETATION WITHOUT AN RNS, AND YOUR FORECAST OF £5-10 WHEN YOU DO NOT HAVE A FCA LICENCE TO ISSUE FORECAST
LoL @news. Of course I'm not going to take you to court! The point is, I caveat what I say, sometimes quite heavily, when I am unsure. You've probably seen my if's and maybe's and could's and should's. But when I know something is not the case, I call it out. If I thought you were deliberately trying to mislead then it may be another matter. But I don't.
observer842
If you are going to say it is false, then will you be taking me to Court over this?
False has a legal meaning?
Probably cost £50k without paying legal cost for both sides?
EyeGuy started saying it is false first and you follow it up?
Just shows the two of you just jump on something that KDNC HAS NOT ISSUED AN RNS TO SAY SO, IE THEY WILL START SHIPPING THE AMAPA IRON ORE STOCKPILES ON X DATE?
KIRAN MOZARIA, CEO OF KDNC IN HIS LATEST INTERVIEW ON TWITTER KDNC HAS NOT SAID SO EITHER.
SO, HOW CAN IT BE "FALSE" to say shipping will start or could start when the FINAL AGREEMENT SETTLEMENT WITH AMAPA BANK CREDITORS IS SIGNED? THAT IS LOGIC AND REASON OF PROCEDURAL? THAT IS MY UNDERSTANDING AND THEREFORE, MY VIEW ONLY OF THE SITUATION AT THE MOMO.
BOTH OF YOU ARE CONTINUALLY GOING AT ME AND PICKING EVERYTHING TO CRITIQUE?
I HAVE NOW PUT IT TO THE MAIN KDNC FORUM. SO FAR TOMCAT-14 HAS SAID THAT SHIPPING CAN START TO GET $10 PROFIT BUT ON MY ASKING, THERE IS YET NO REPLY AS TO CAN KDNC NOW OFFICIALLY START SHIPPING AND IF SO WHAT IS THE DATE?
NOTHING WRONG WITH A VIEW OF WHAT ONE HAS READ AND HEARD -EVIDENCE MUST COME FROM THE OFFICIAL REGULATORY NEWS SERVICE IE RNS.
FOR AVOIDANCE OF DOUBT: A VIEW CANNOT BE CONSIDERED"FALSE" IF THERE IS NO ACCOMPANYING EVIDENCE OF AN RNS TO SAY KDNC WILL START SHIPPING ON X DATE SHORTLY IF SO?
News, Sat 6 Mar 2021.
@news. It is perfectly OK to say something is false if you are 100% certain it is. What you are saying is false. DEV can ship per the official RNS.
OK, EYEGUY AND OBSERVER842
I have now taken the SHIPPING CAN START PER THE BOTH OF YOU although this is not my understanding as the FINAL SETTLEMENT AGREEMENT WITH THE BANK CREDITORS HAVE NOT BEEN SIGNED. Logic and reasoning 101.
NO ONE ON THE MAIN FORUM THINK SO EITHER AS I DID NOT READ SO THUS FAR?
NO ONE HAS SAID SHIPPING OF AMAPA IRON ORE STARTS X DATE.
NO RNS FROM KDNC TO STATE SO YET.
KIRAN MORZARIA IN HIS LATEST INTERVIEW WITH ************* IN RECENT DAYS ON KDNC OFFICIAL TWITTER HAS NOT SAID SO.
NO ONE HAS CONFIRMED THAT YET.
NO DATES GIVEN WHEN SHIPPING CAN START, NO EVEN ALAN GREEN OF BRAND COMMUNICATIONS.
I HAVE NOW TAKEN THIS TO THE MAIN KDNC FORUM TO PUT IT OUT THERE. I WILL TAKE WHAT OTHERS SAY.
OK, LETS END THIS NOW.
EYEGUY, TRY TO BE MORE CAREFUL WHEN YOU USE THE WORD "THAT IS FALSE" BECAUSE THERE IS NO KDNC REGULATORY NEWS SERVICE IE RNS TO SAY THEY WILL NOW START SHIPPING WITH A DATE. KIRAN MOZARIA HAS NOT SAID SO EITHER IN HIS INTERVIEW.
SO, IF IT IS MERELY A READING OF ONE*S OWN VIEW FROM PAST RNS*S , THERE IS STILL NO RNS TO SAY KDNC IS PLEASED TO SAY THERE IS NO FINAL SETTLEMENT WITH BANK CREDITORS BUT KDNC WILL START SHIPPING OF THE IRON ORE AT AMAPA ON X , Y DATE?
SO, NOTHING FALSE ABOUT THAT- THERE IS NO OFFICIAL RNS FROM KDNC.
So, its all merely WHAT PEOPLE THINK LIKE YOURSELVES OF WHAT IT MEANS BUT KDNC HAS NOT ISSUED AN RNS TO SAY SHIPPING W I L L START ON MAR OR APR ....OR WHATEVER DATE?
-----------------NO RNS------------------
Sa, 6 Mar 2021.