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“Noddy bread van shapes “ love that as a phrase .
Chuckled at that as I drag the mutt around on a chilly morning ,excellent.
Thanks Pete, some goods points there and I agree about naff design choices, they seem to go out of their way to make
noddy bread van shapes suitable for the next dumb and dumber movie.
I find this guys channel very interesting.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kz6WxTH-p3o&t=607s
Totally agree Builder Pete. Mercedes, BMW and Audi are letting Tesla get ahead in the technology/price battle on battery and autonomous driving while they pursue a rather pointless dead end on hybrid cars.
TM to my mind Hybrid vehicles should have been rolled out 20 years ago as half way house to reduce pollution and get the public used to the electric principle and for the motor industry to re-tool as you say.
My point mainly is that hybrids are really only just being rolled out but the technology has already been made obsolete by government policy so millions has been spent on design and manufacture of an obsolete engine when it should have been spent on FCEV and BEV design and infrastructure.
Basically a whole layer of industrial production has been introduced between p/d engines and FCEV /BEV that hinders the roll out of the latter.
FCEV /BEV should be much further on in the development cycle but is at least 15 years behind in where it should be.
The 2008 crisis meant for political reasons alone vehicle manufacturers who should have gone bankrupt with there old polluting technologies were saved to carry on when they should have replaced by the new eg TESLA it’s only now that they talk about building back GREEN.
Banks that crashed have been replaced by purely mobile and or digital banks as an example of what should have happened.
tm yes its a puzzle, broadly from my own experience those stats are correct, but depend on the range of the car, eg today drove my wifes (only 22kw) bev 150 miles, from home 85% charged, arrived at destination 5% remain, charged to 85% 20mins & had lunch..left late afternoon stopped appx half way put another 30miles on 10mins to get home as would have been short, car back on charge journey cost 1.85p not incuding home charge (mostly solar) Obviously the car isnt intended for long jouneys buy I enjoy the challenge.
tm I dont really see it as unnecessary meddling with the grid, its mostly already there in situ to be used.
Pete I think its deliberate, they need to sell you what you dont need first, same with computers. the ads are working people
think Hybrid is the answer infact its the next diesel the worst of both worlds and fossil fuel still dominant, it just buys them time to retool, they could never meet the demand for fcev or bev otherwise.
What really gets my goat is they talk about stopping production of diesel /petrol engines but you try buying a hybrid let alone electric van there just are not any.
Totally agree we need to get rid of d/ p engines but surely there needs to be the option to buy FCEV/BEV vehicles and be able to fill or charge those vehicles or perhaps we could all walk down the M11 etc for 10 years .
Think we all agree that future transportation has to be a mix of hydrogen and electric but the powers that be seem to be asleep as how we get there any time soon.
It seems most ordinary people already worry about the grid crashing and journey anxiety as to the availability of charging points etc which is holding back the take up of BEVs.
Would buy a FCEV but again at this time there is no fueling infrastructure and the price is prohibitive,also for some reason all the FCEV vehicles are a pretty naff design so you have to drive around looking like a right nerd if you want to do your bit.
Itm and Shell really need to get a move on with the forecourt roll outs.
Interesting stats taskmaster, but I wonder what the predicted stats are if everyone drove BEVs. If 50% don't even have an option to charge from home then that 87% has got to come way down. Question is then which goes up to compensate. My guess is that places of work will be encouraged to have more availability, so probably that and en-route will be the main ones that increase.
Personally I'd still abandon BEV and switch all to hydrogen to save all this unnecessary meddling with the grid. I understand the efficiency argument over BEV and FCEV but I just can't believe that justifies the demands on the grid rather than simply replacing diesel pumps with hydrogen pumps. After all 20+ years ago diesel pumps were uncommon yet we managed to change half the unleaded to diesel pumps when the government suggested we all buy diesels instead.
Res EV charging activity by location................
Home -87%
Work - 8%
Destination - 4%
En route - 1%
Piston engine vehicle fueling activity by location................
Home -0%
Work - 0%
Destination - 0%
En route - 100%
Tyson...An electric motor typically is between 85% and 90% efficient. That means it converts that percentage of the electricity provided to it into useful work.
Piston engine vehicles only convert about 17%–21% of their energy to power at the wheels.
Along with all surplus wind and solar currently thrown away will be stored as H2 to power the grid when required.
Totally agree Pete
How are we (UK) going to provide all that electricity to charge up all those cars!!completely unworkable for me/ IMO.
BuilderPete, it sounds like they're not going to worry about generating more for the spike but instead switch off our high power home appliances - electric heating and EV chargers - at times of limited supply...
https://www.autoexpress.co.uk/electric-cars/353209/energy-firms-want-right-switch-electric-cars-charging-home
https://www.mirror.co.uk/money/energy-firms-able-turn-your-22703216
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2020/09/19/critics-smart-meters-right-along2/
If you need 2.8 million EV charging points has anyone worked out the spike voltage needed to keep the National grid running.
As every year when it gets cold we are told the grid is near capacity.
Imagine the chaos when the nation goes to put the kettle on during an ad break in Coronation Street and nothing happens that should bring the government of the day down .
Nice catch taskmaster. 2.8m does seem a little high. Assuming they were fast chargers that you'd connect to for an hour you could service 28m vehicles in 10 hours (considering day-time charging only). Moving into day 2 you've charged up to 56m vehicles which would easily cover all of today's vehicles. As you point out, considering the number of homes charging as well makes the 2.8m public charging proposal seem even more far-fetched. I wonder whether the SMMT are really looking to improve charging or are over exaggerating the case as a subtle argument against changing from fossil to battery.
The thing is TM , people will drive to a garage forecourt , without thinking you just build that visit in. If you can’t have your own charging point , what do you do then? Drive 20 miles and hang around? Hardly progress in this day and age so quite simply you need clusters of chargers everywhere , hence the figures maybe? Additionally , would you be prepared to queue for a charger like you do for diesel? Almost definitely not , so you actually need disproportionally more and if you expect people to wait you also need something for them to do...... shops etc. I would suggest this is a massively more difficult prospect than switching diesel pumps to H2? All good for us as common sense starts to win out. GWA , keep safe.
Steady on tm.... where do they get these numbers "2.8 million public EV chargers required"
Number of petrol stations in the United Kingdom is 8,385
whereas well need 2.800.000 EV charge points ?
23 million dwellings in the UK...half have accessible 240v sockets ? thats where majority of charging happens overnight.
Hope you get your fcev, for me as long as its not its not fossil I happy.
I always wince when the BEV brigade claim that hydrogen's no good because there's no infrastructure. And then I read things like this...
"Millions more EV charge points needed to meet buyers’ confidence in 2035 target. Some 2.8 million public EV chargers will need to be installed by 2035 to achieve the UK government’s zero emission-capable new car market target, a study by the Society of Motor Manufacturers and Traders (SMMT) and Frost and Sullivan has found. According to the survey, there are currently 19,315 on-street charge points in the UK, which means 507 on-street chargers will need to be installed daily until 2035 to get the country’s public charging network ready for mass EV adoption, at a total cost of £16.7bn."
https://www.cittimagazine.co.uk/news/electric-vehicles-charging/millions-more-ev-charge-points-needed-to-meet-buyers-confidence-in-2035-target.html
So if it's ok for the BEV guys to need 2.8m more charge points, why is it not ok for us to build out a few hundred hydrogen stations? A network of 100 to 400 hydrogen stations across the country would look pretty close to full coverage based on the traditional 5 minute stop and fill without having to go too far out of your way to fill up. Our roll-out is just painfully slow.
They used to blame the chicken and egg scenario - can't build the stations with out the cars - can't build the cars without the stations. Well the cars do exist now so it turns out it was the chicken after all. Too chicken to build the stations. C'mon hurry up with the H2 stations...I want my FCEV.