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We will. I think it could easily be sensitive and connected to the financing - my first thoughts when the jpm news broke was this was the clearing the decks before equity is done. It feels close. The price action recently very kuch supports the theory thst we will see some news imminently, as does the confirmation that financing hasnt been delayed - ergo - expected within 5 weeks of today. Not impatient, just intrigued, the deal we get. Gla
Wasa,
JPM did their bit and we had their TR1. I tend to think this involves the funding and they have agreed to sell for whatever reason. It is of course possible it is now deemed sensitive information and we are in a closed period otherwise whoever bought them should have declared it by now. The only other explanation I can think of is that they were split between different II's who have not hit the 3% threshold. Maybe time will tell, maybe not. ATB
Excellent thanks mate that puts one of the questions to bed. It makes sense - had I got my maths right I would have sussed it on the weekend but thought the director holdings were higher.
The intriguing question now is what happened to the jpm shares. In my experience investment banks dont give up these assets lightly...and if someone paid premium, who was it?!
Good evening all,
I received this reply from Simon Retter just now.
Shares not in public hands includes and holders of greater than 10%.
It does not include collections of individual shareholders who are able to vote independently, such as Hargreaves Lansdown.
The week before last we announced that cannacord had increased or shareholding through the 10% barrier via a TR1 announcement.
I hope this helps to clarify the situation.
It helps clarify the issue of shares ‘not in public hands’.
I have written back asking:
We had the TRI notifying the sale of the JP Morgan Chase’s shares last week. Many PI’s are concerned/perplexed. Are you able to say whether this is in any way connected to the funding needed for the Araguaia Project? If not, will Jeremy be updating us when he takes part in the Proactive conference on Thursday evening?
I will post any reply I get. GLA
My buy printed as a Sell.....seen this many times. GLA
26-May-20 12:08:44 3.92 128,000 Sell* 3.80 4.10 5,018
Ty guys.
Flavourshaker, i tried and failed:) There's a lot to come and this will be a long hold for me.
Wassa - the project is almost at the business end. I was given a tip by a mate, a fund manager who knows his stuff.
You're not far off from that target. GLA
Welcome to the club Ethio!
I remember your post the other day about buying in here. Trying to get in at 3.4p was definitely a tall order but 3.92p is an excellent price as the sp will be much higher when news does land.
Ethio - well done. My first Horizonte buy was 3.97p so you got in cheaper than me. I first bought 11/4/18! Strange in 2 years and with the progress this company has made since we are still at the same level but by all accounts that is about to change.
just took 128k at 3.92. GLA
Wassa - I've looked into this excellent company and will take a few soon. I don't think you'll wait too long to reach your target. Thank you so much
Ethio yes if you are completely new to hzm you just missed a good opportunity at the 2p area we never thkught we would see that level again (with £17m in the bank) that was a pure covid panic thing, but in terms of the longer term these are still very cheap. My goal remains 7.5-10p financing this year and 20-25p in 2-3yrs when producing so risk reward timescales you take yohr pick. We all have our goals and time horizons! My next target is 4.8p - only because when multiplied by my holdings it gives me a nice round number.
Wassa - I could not get in last week - the spread - Could have taken 3.60s :(
Again, huge spreads. 3.80 to sell and 4.02 to buy earlier.
Thats interesting! Could be a very simple explanation then. I thought it was 4 days. Plenty of days left to declare if jpm sold 18th May as their tr1 suggests. Maybe later this week or next week for news then.
It seems odd that the 'not in public hands' increased by pretty much the Cannacord stake after they crossed above 10% if that was not the reason. Seems more than coincidence. I am not overly familiar with how all these reporting rules hang together but generally trust we will find out all in good time and pretty relaxed about it all, but it is nice speculating. Speculating is always best with an appreciating sp I find!
Hi Wasa,
I agree, there are two questions. To be honest, I cannot get my head round the issue of ‘shares not in public hands’. For me, and I may well be wrong (again), but it does not include any held by an II. You can rule out the main holders. It does include the directors, but again my take is not any options they can take - only once they are authorised by the LSE. I could be wrong! Nor those held in treasury. As far as we know, there are still none in treasury.
Also, from the FCA handbook we have:
“For the purposes of LR 6.14.1R:
(1) account may also be taken of holders in one or more states that are not EEA States, if the shares are listed in the state or states;
(2) a sufficient number of shares will be taken to have been distributed to the public when 25% of the shares for which application for admission has been made are in public hands; and
(3) treasury shares are not to be taken into consideration when calculating the number of shares of the class.
I note para (2) has 25% of the shares and the new percentage is 26.5%. I do not believe in coincidences!
Also, how do they differentiate when a director holds their shares in a nominee account such as HL or II?
My understanding is that anyone crossing a threshold has 14 days to notify - agonising wait each day we don’t know!!
ATB
Jpm, could be classed as market sensitive if they have sold to someone else like TECK etc. But they would still be in public hands if sold to someone else and kept under the 10%.
There is one scenario I can think of on the JPM stake which works, where they can announce in one TR1 and we don't see further TR1s on the buy side. That is that they distributed, off market/private sales, to new buyers who individually didn't go above 3% (possible exception of Cannacord who went from 9-10% threshold).
Seems unlikely though.
Hi 600Thieves I see it really as two distinct questions so it isn't clear which one Horizonte are answering:
- who owns the 25.6%? At the moment (this is just my view) it looks a lot like Teck+Cannacord+Directors adds up to the right number - should the company confirm it? Do they need to break this number down for us? I don't know of the requirement on them to do so.
- secondly has there been a further change over and above what is currently listed in the significant shareholders as a result of the JPM holding change. The company can easily argue (and seems to be the case in the reply to nutkins) that if they haven't been notified, they can't release any update. It seems a bit odd that the JPM news is now a week old - it suggests either JPM weren't diligent in reporting their sells (I don't believe this and also I believe it would have had a hugely detrimental impact on the SP at a time into the TR1 announcement when the SP was generally rising) or, the buyer of the shares has not yet notified (more likely in my opinion).
But I agree more generally I think the company are in the middle of sorting the big ticket item and perhaps some of this housekeeping is secondary at the moment. Still hoping for a TR1 on who took the JPM stake though.
I'm also half expecting to see further big late reported buy if Friday was a loading period for an II (again maybe Cannacord).
Maybe the IT guys jumped the gun on updating the website, lol.
Luke,
We are in very strange times, as a company, the pandemic and the global economy. I agree that to update the website over a bank holiday weekend and then, when quizzed, reply to nutkins “we unaware of the identity of any other major shareholders other than those already communicated to the market via TR1’s.” IMHO, this dodges the question about shares not in public hands, surely they must know to amend the website. I do think this is possibly because they are in the middle of a financing package which is about to be announced -maybe Thursday! ATB
Very strange day Saturday on a Bank holiday weekend to update shares not in public hands.
Could it just have been wasa’s deliberations on the subject that day made them realise the figures were wrong?
Seems unlikely to me.
I believe we are at the business end of finance and things will be revealed as and when. I dont mind finding out if Teck are going to buy us in 3 weeks time or now, doesnt really matter. It will be interesting today, on Friday there was clear buying pressure in the afternoon, whether that resumes today. North American buyers perhaps. Gla.
4p just gone! Please may we never see 3p or less again.
Thanks nutkins. There we have it - no bl**dy use at all! ATB
Thanks D220,
I have some doubts they will simply because I think they are amidst a multiple of more important matters to do with the finance. I am also having increasing hopes that this will include Vermelo as the need for EV gathers pace. I agree though, they should provide their PI's an answer. Time will tell but exciting times ahead with the ask back to 4p this morning. ATB
In the meantime 4p looks about to go. That is a welcome development, I believe we have been sub 4p for 6 months+ now.