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Malrees, I wasn't aware of 229E being known in the middle of the last century, can you put up a link to it any papers where this is explained. Again, my main point is CV19 is part of a family of viruses, there is evidence it is a natural evolution of those, though not conclusive, I try to keep an open mind.
DC... I understand, you have a particular view, we can only agree to disagree, there are no prizes... My information comes from research, it may not be right, but it reaches further and is not quite so simplistic as you'd like to think it is.
BlooBird,
" A team from the Institute engineered a hybrid virus, combining a bat coronavirus with a SARS virus that had been adapted to grow in mice and mimic human disease. The hybrid virus was able to infect human cells."
Of course, one must always be wary about what one gleans from wrongopedia.
But that quote does, to my mind, invite closer and deeper question.
There aleady enough viruses around, some of which still have no known cure. And I can fully understand the existence of 'virology research institutes', searching for such cures. But inventing new ones? The individuals doing that must already be sick. In the head.
Or else, such 'research' is military-related.
Meanwhile, millions of 'surgical masks' are being flown into Europe because of a seeming shortage. From guess where?
adoubleuk
I will not go so far as to say it was deliberate, but you can guarantee that they will exploit it.
bartlebobton
You know as well as I that we are talking about Corvid 19, but you choose to be fatuous.
Yes.
It took a while before the last foot and mouth outbreak was tied to the lab in Pirbright; In the open and honest UK.
And didn't I read that the Chinese were burying people in mass graves?
A bit like we did with the animals.
Whether they had it or not...
Adoubleuk
"I refuse to believe that China deliberately unleashed this thing on the world"
I agree but it has happened when a virus was leaked from a lab accidently.
The last line of the report is the scary bit
" The hybrid virus was able to infect human cells."
BlooBird,
"It seems more than coincidence that a major virology lab is In Wuhan."
This is entering 'conspiracy theory' territory. It's been aired worldwide for at least a month, now. But nevertheless, it's sure that once this has all blown over, CV-19 will become known as 'Chinese Flu'.
Nobody (or at least hardly anybody) in the West had heard of Wuhan until this broke out. In fact, had it been properly contained, the death of a city and their eleven million people wouldn't have bothered me at all. I'm callous, like that.
However, there are limits to conspiracy theories.
I refuse to believe that China deliberately unleashed this thing on the world. But I do reckon the news only broke once they realised it was out of control.
It seems more than coincidence that a major virology lab is In Wuhan.
WIKIPEDIA states the following:-
In 2005, a group including researchers from the Wuhan Institute of Virology published research into the origin of the SARS coronavirus, finding that China's horseshoe bats are natural reservoirs of SARS-like coronaviruses.[6] Continuing this work over a period of years, researchers from the Institute sampled thousands of horseshoe bats in locations across China, isolating over 300 bat coronavirus sequences.[7]
In 2015, the Institute published successful research on whether a bat coronavirus could be made to infect HeLa. A team from the Institute engineered a hybrid virus, combining a bat coronavirus with a SARS virus that had been adapted to grow in mice and mimic human disease. The hybrid virus was able to infect human cells.
bartlebobton..
It appears you know little about human coronaviruses.
They have been around, 229E among others, since at least the middle of the last century.
Please don't attempt to provide false data to prove your point as there will always be someone on here who knows more about any one subject than you do.
DC .. CoronaVirus belongs to a large family. The first Coronavirus was in 2003, another outbreak emerged in SaudiA in 2012. CV19 is a strain of the CV.... It belongs to a family of viruses... and there is evidence it is a natural evolution, so I still won't hang my hat on China.
Apologies Longwait - I went back and re-read your posts :-)
Ok i'll rephrase what I said but in a more general way. Money should'nt matter more than human life. If it does for anyone, then they need to re-evaluate their own purpose in life.
'Unlike Cancer or Heart Disease or Stroke or whatever - this coronavirus is something that is within our power to stop and prevent. It's within our capability to minimise the damage and minimise the deaths. So why as a human race would we not?
Unless of course money means more to you then human life? '
If by 'you', you mean me, LC, then you have completely misunderstood what I am saying.
What I wanted to say is that it would be interesting to see last year's - or a normal year's - fatality figures and compare them with the present ones.
The difference might give a better indication of the number of deaths being caused by the virus.
I've never said that I support a laissez-faire approach.
If you click on my name and look at my comments of 19:24 and 19:39 on 27 March and 09:34 on 25 March , and especially the fourth line of my comment at 22:40 on 24 March, you will see that my view is quite the opposite!
bartlebobton
It's very simple:
Did or did not this virus originate in China?
DC... we don't know the root cause, there are the Pangolin and bat theories. How China managed it, takes us back to "avoidable mortality" which applies to all countries... What countries are directly responsible for infecting people in the UK, Spain, Italy, France...indirectly China ...who do you point the finger to then ?
DC,
"First reported case in China was 19th November. "
To be exact, I think you'll find that that person involved was the first 'unexplained fatality' where a case of some sort of 'flu suddenly developed badly. The thing had already been around for a while. Actual identification of the virus being 'new' only happened in early January, but the genie was well out of the bottle by then.
bartlebobton
"It's not a simple issue, it's more, much more, than just pointing a finger."
Every country in the world will have to account to its own people for their management of this crisis.
Only one country was responsible for causing it.
Yawn ... ADUK ...it's old news.... you distractable doofus....
There's something rather ironic I've noticed while watching the news. Which 'european' country (just about the only one) not under some kind of lockdown? Yup, you've guessed, that country where Abba came from, more recently shoved into the shadows by a young lady advocating that the world uses less oil, and stuff like that. Sweden. Business as usual there, it seems.
I wonder if she's happy she's got her wish? Maybe she's now back attending school, 'cos they're still open there.
Of course, Sweden has the highest suicide-rate of any 'european' country, but I guess we'd better not mention that.
We can only go off the figures and data we have. The death rate is based off the confirmed and known cases. Obviously we can't know for sure how many cases that might exist in the wild that we don't know of. Similarly we don't know how many of deaths have occured where people may have been infected by coronavirus but never tested either.
It's best to stick to the known figures and actual data at hand.
.... think about the testing;
A Doctor, is -ve one day, the next day he could be +ve, are all NHS staff on the front line tested on a daily basis, I doubt it.
Hi good message, the problem with the numbers is they only include people who have bee tested, the vast majority will have had the virus and not be in the figures, the death rate would be very lower for the under 70s, and a many old folk pass away due to the complications of a common cold.
DCentre... I mean literally; if nothing was done by any country.... If you are pointing the finger, it's not just China, who is "guilty" . We had BJ laughing at a press conference, boasting he had shaken hands, with a number of people with CV the previous day, 1 mtr to his left and right; Chris Whitty and Patrick Vallence. It's bit of a different tale now, the WHO made it clear what should be done, there was a lag, look at daily testing figures of Germany, they are in the region of 80/90000 .. UK 20k.
There is something called "Avoidable’ mortality" which can be used to measure the quality / performance of a health system, what would you expect to see if you compared the UK to, say ? It's a method used to make cross-country comparisons, cases of unnecessary disease, disability, untimely deaths. What medical knowledge is available per country, medical + health personal, laboratories, the responsibility of an individual, the responsibility of a government. if everything goes well a condition is prevented or managed, who responsibility is it, as I pointed out above there is a chain, for example not every child is immunised against measles, a choice of parents.
There are also "Negative consequence" of medical care, in the US there are around 90k deaths associated by medical errors, look to thalidomide.
It's not a simple issue, it's more, much more, than just pointing a finger.
LW, with those regular anticipated deaths there is no panic and it's widely accepted that it happens. Things like cancer, heart disease etc.
With Coronavirus, if we didn't go to the extraodinary lengths the world is currently going to (locking down entire countries, shutting down air traffic, paying people to stay at home, desparately trying to acquire 10,000's of ventilators, pulling in hospital ships, seeting up field hospitals, etc etc) how many deaths would we actually have?
As I write this there are 743,286 confirmed cases in the world. There are 35,350 confirmed deaths of people who have tested positive for coronavirus.
This means there is a 4.75% death rate globally for those who have contracted coronavirus at thsi moment in time.
If approx 66% of the world population acquired coronavirus then you would expect:
(8 billion x 0.66) x 0.0475 = 250,800,000 deaths.
so approx 250million people would die. Doesn't bear thinking about does it. So consequently the world has literally had to to to extreme lengths to prevent that possibility from being realised.
Unlike Cancer or Heart Disease or Stroke or whatever - this coronavirus is something that is within our power to stop and prevent. It's within our capability to minimise the damage and minimise the deaths. So why as a human race would we not?
Unless of course money means more to you then human life?
To be fair - the first reported case was at least a month before the UK went into lockdown too. In fact most western states tried to hold off going into lockdown as much as possible. Take the USA for example - currently with 142,000 cases and still no major lockdown, just governors of states left to their own devices to manage it. In fact most US states (mainly the republican states) are doing their best to avoid going anywhere near a lockdown and even downplaying the severity of the situation. The. US has become the new epicenter!