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So, in the HL update, they confirm that HFEL has reduced their China holdings and reinvested them in India. They should have done this ages ago. All we need now is Henderson to update their website and we can really see what is happening.
https://www.hl.co.uk/news/articles/henderson-far-east-income-december-2023-update
Surely the fact they are buying back shares at a discount to nav as opposed to at a premium to nav is because they recognise there is value in doing so?
Much like directors buys, they see value in doing so however minescule the percentage it’s better than not taking advantage of the discount?
''I don't see the point. They're saving £27k against an annual dividend cost''
''It's peanuts and insignificant''.
The point is that it is £27,000 from just 3 days worth of purchases.
Also I imagine this programme has been put in place because of the good discount to NAV, currently available,with an aim of reducing the gap and indeed with the hope of helping the share price get back to trading at a premium once more, at which time the shares could be sold back into the market if at a good gain against the purchase prices.
THAT IS THE POINT.
With such a small amount, ie 0.068% of shares in circulation, I don't see the point. They're saving £27k against an annual dividend cost of £39.8m! It's peanuts and insignificant and it's on that basis that I don't see the point.
''I say again, what's the point? ''
I say again - no dividends to pay on bought shares .
A yearly saving so far based on historic dividends of getting on for £27,000.
These shares are being held, so could be re issued at a later time or cancelled.
Also buying assets at a discount against their valuation.
What, a massive saving of £9,760 on dividend payments! I say again, what's the point? It's 0.02% of their dividend bill!! I don't see the point.
''What benefit is that?''
no dividends to pay on bought shares .
I don't see the point of these low value buy backs. This latest one was 0.02% of the current shares in circulation. What benefit is that?
LTI, thanks for the explanation there mate.
Jm
''they wouldn’t have bought some back if they didn’t see value?''
yes correct - buying underlying assets at a good discount and in the meantime saving dividend payments on those shares
We all do it subjectively because it’s our money at risk. Vive la difference! Not saying any approach is right or wrong but the market is strangely random and chaotic in how it reacts and there are so many factors and inputs which makes it interesting,rewarding at times, other times quite disheartening if you let it get to you.
James
Thanks for your response.
I comment and post ratios numbers and analyse or leave the reader to analyse I understand you suggest this is not the way you approach investments.
Thanks for the link. Interesting read.
Noted another buyback….they’re seeing an opportunity here too surely?!
Thanks for the link Ade.
On yield it’s just pounds,shillings and pence to me, if I buy a thousand quids worth of shares at 8% yield and the SP drops a third, they maintain the yield or rise it slightly I’m still getting 8% return, if I bought more now it would add to the ROI which I have recently so if I could be bothered I’d factor that in but with over 200 holdings and a farm and a big property project on-going(aaarghhhh) I haven’t got the headspace and with the trusts holdings I have I like to think they have the nouce to deal with it if you know what I mean!
Agreed LTI, if the nav creeps up so will the SP! Discount to nav verses premium to nav is interesting but as I was saying to Ade they wouldn’t have bought some back if they didn’t see value?
Which is more of an interest to me, is currently at 216p.
Https://www.msci.com/documents/10199/ad5fe14c-7e93-4fc5-a3fb-e5ba994b58cc
Link for HFEL MSCI closest benchmark for those who are interested.
James
OK maybe I have some understanding why you disagree with my views but can I ask please leave the personals.
No problem, I invest for return on investment it’s that simple and yield income is a big part of why I invest. Perceived value and dividends are my bag, a few punts here and there. Nice chatting and glad we hopefully buried a few misconceptions. All the best ade.
James,
If we cannot agree on yield. I really cannot ask or explain anything.
Assuming 6.1ppq as the benchmark yes of course but as you can appreciate I’m only looking at this subjectively because to me yield is return on investment paid rather than what you get at the now price.
James,
"The buy now yield is that but my averages are just under and just over 3 quid not allowing for dividends received so I guess that makes my return around 8%?"
I guess this is the yield to you at the prices you bought. This is why I am asking the questions step by step. This was not my question.
Buying today can we agree the yield is 12% plus or minus and the management fee is 1%?
Ade, not meant as a pop as that was probably down to my interpretation!
I don’t think I ever said get off the board as that’s not my style or indeed down to me although in those days I was confused about you being a holder or not a holder…..let’s move on please.
The buy now yield is that but my averages are just under and just over 3 quid not allowing for dividends received so I guess that makes my return around 8%?
"Your posts do come over as muddled at times and that’s not meant as a criticism"
Still having some sort of a pop