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That's an interesting article, thanks MK
I read this article about board mentality recently.
It's around four years old but gives some food for thought about how we can ostracise people who do not share our enthusiasm for a company and praise those, in a self-congratulatory way, for sharing our positive opinions. Thus, we do not see the negatives at all and can become blinkered by our 'herd' belief in the prospects. This can lead to disaster, of course.
I'm getting some deja-vu writing this so I may have drawn attention to it before. It's a thought provoking read.
I agree that the listener has the right to not agree with the statement (in topic) or actually ignore the statement (in topic); but if you have filtered someone because you don't like what they say or because they are negative then you cannot see the whole conversation on the topic as it
transpires, so there are blanks. It can shorten topics but also hide specific posts.
Regarding filtering:- I remember reading posts a few weeks ago and a member requested that someone repost a specific weblink from a previous post within the same topic - so it was either the person could not be bothered to go back 20 or so posts or had filteted the original poster and could not see the weblink (I'm sure it was the latter); so what was the point of reading the topic in the first place if you cannot see all the posts in it ?
@Floater, I've only got about 7 people I filter on the whole forum. There's others I filtered and then unfiltered because responses to them made me think they'd said something worthwhile. And others I said I was going to filter and never got around to it. Probably at least half who say they will filter don't actually do it. So probably some who said they were filtering you, didn't do it.
But it doesn't matter. I don't agree that it stifles debate. Shouting people down can do it -- zoros may not want to come back to engage with those who tried to engage with him, because of the hostility of some others. But filtering doesn't stifle debate, it just means that some people choose not to engage in the debate.
The right to speak freely is not the same as the right to be heard or the right to get a response. In fact, filtering is as much an exercise of free speech as commenting. The right to not listen, and the right to not respond, are as important as the right to speak. It is only dictators that require innocent people to listen.
Panama, Jerry, TmT - I agree with you regarding that filtering valid conversation does stifle debate. Everyone is different and we all have different views on how GGP will get to where we want it too. We can all digest all the positive information and be bouyant, but some will still be wary of the final outcome for the money they've invested, so they can think negative of the share and should be able to talk on here about it, and not be berated for it.
Yes, the filter tab is there and we can all block negativity but stifling or ignoring debate is an undemocratic purpose.
From my experience, I actually know some people will not see this message as when I first joined the board I had the uneducated audacity to ask a question on ISA's and they thought it was necessary to berate and filter me for it - so first hand experience of how the filter tab works.
@panama / Jerry, I also agree.
There's a difference between RRR and someone like zoros. Zoros has a brain and is giving the reason for his view. I am convinced his thinking is flawed, of course, but it isn't deramping, it's a different way of thinking about the SP / value. And while it is flawed in the way he stated it and the extrapolation he made from it, the point that no one really knows how much gold is there, and what it is really worth, is entirely valid.
Couldn't agree more Jerry. If it is a real opinion by someone often credible,and that someone believes in, then there are things to be learnt by the opposing views and debates along the way. ATB
Panama, I am with you on this. We will learn more through debate and those with opposing views. My experience of zoros is that he will challenge and debate with you/us, not like some of the weekend rubbish. He might be wrong, but then we all often are, but filtering someone who posed an opinion that can be debated, helps no one.
Not defending anyone or being political, so please take this as I mean it, which is to say that whether anyone agrees with the sentiments or not, from what I have seen of other posts of this GGP holder, I would surmise that they have been with decent content more often than not. This is just an expression of their opinion, like it or not.
Whilst I agree the filter button is there for those who blatantly obviously are deramping or causing mischie; in this case I don't believ eit was, and I for one have learnt some more useful facts from most of the replies to this thread which have been of value to me. Just my view, take it or leave it.
It is just ridiculous how zoros has managed to hijack this board for 2 days. Sad to see experienced posters constantly engaging with him. For God's sake FILTER.
Hi Zoros - If you really want to better understand the value of Havieron to GGP, then I would recommend the Investment Journey's two presentations on YouTube. The first was made on 10th April:
The second is an shorter pres with updates to some of the assumptions made:
In the second presentations, IJ takes some (purposefully) rather conservative values for a number of variables:
POG = $1500/oz, AISC of $912, 1.86g/T gold grade, Copper of 0.6% per Tonne, 5mOz Reserve of Gold, 20 year mine life and an NPV Discount Factor of 2.5%, he has assumed zero value to all of GGP's other assets. Those variables result in a SP of 17p. If you increase the reserves to 10m Oz, the price increases to 35p. From my research, this is probably the most comprehensive valuation of GGP (albeit conservative) and would indicate that there is plenty of upside in most of the variables and of course, the inclusion of GGP's other assets. In the second pres, IJ provides a range of potential SP range of between 6p and £1.13 - the lowest is at 5M Oz and $1000 PoG, the highest is 20M Oz and $2000. Therefore, I guess the answer to your question is somewhere between 6p and £1.13 depending on how bullish/bearsih you want to be on each of the various variables.
Additionally, with the drilling at Scallywag, we will be able to attribute more value to the other GGP held assets - any increase from zero has to be good.
I recommend that you take a look at both of the presentations to get a better idea of how each the unknowns could impact the SP - each of these will be getting clearer in the coming months and, I suspect that the variables used will improve thus increasing the potential share price.
Zoros I think it’s more than Havieron now.. as people observed - we don’t know if it’s 12p or 74p down there. We just don’t. But given Paddysat and the central zone core drills, we know it’s big. We just don’t know how big...we’re speculating a bit on that. But given the speed + enthusiasm that NCM are hitting this project - it’s pretty clear that NCM, with access to the very latest data - Are more than confident, Havieron will become a large mine. They are actively accelerating everything. Now, I think ‘others in the know’, are speculating on the geology and that Scallywag (100% ours )will also deliver Something big... those drills are happening really soon now. So it’s more than Havieron that 12-13p. For me it’s certainly ‘more than Havieron’ driving me to not take profits and to put more money in at 10p which is 9-10p as an absolute worst possible case scenario. Come on Zoros? look at the bigger picture. There’s more than pIs driving this... they don’t normally cause the sp to behave so concretely. No other AIM share chart looks like this. Every fund manger I’ve discussed this with has invested their own personal cash. Because they Like the story and they understand charts. Geology and Paddy aside This chart is textbook stuff. Definitely going higher.
Bored now! (Filtered)
Dude everyone including myself thinks your way of the mark on the negative. Homework Zoros must read RNS reports many many good ones have been published LMAO
Nice one Hopefullygold pmsl
Although I didn't agree with your recent observations re solgold v Greatland personally, please keep posting.
Parallels with Hong Kong and suppression of democracy, freedom and the right to challenge is on topic.
Now come on Spy there is no need for this,we all must be able to speak our mind, if people dont agree with someones view dont recommend the post and ignore it, lets keep the board friendly and encourage others to come on board and hopefully invest,not frighten them off if they say the wrong thing, after all this can only benefit us all in the long run.
There is absolutely no point whatsoever in trying to argue a case which is not factually data based. By all means hypothesise.
I cannot remember how many times I have used the phrase - "" be patient /have patience "". 10 days time , all being well , we will all be presented with FACTS which will start to crystallise and narrow ( or expand ) the criteria on which we can base our dreams.
Tonight I discovered an old friend who is similarly invested to myself , and who had no idea that I was " Tig ". It'sa very small world. WE had a fascinating discussion. We both are expecting great things, and I am a huge optimist. BUT we are both disciplined and sensible enough to recognise that the future will be disclosed only when those in the know reveal all of the actual facts.
I personally believe that , if Scally turns up trumps , and also remembering that Copper also plays a huge part in all of these calcula tions ( CU prices now at record levels ), that we will be looking at a pre - Xmas SP well in excess of 50p , But if it is only 35p,I will be more than delighted.
Whatever , it is going to be a very good xmas.
Have patience , and hope. Looking forward to seeing some of you at the Stig on the River in 10days time.
I'm with Spy....Why ? been here only 19 months and
some posters just try too hard with their rhetoric / reasoning....
Chart Reddirt Paddy Schemiel Spy Merc & many more including the infamous Mickey etc...
post reseached or informed Australian info along with a few encouraging ramps !!
Hopefully not a naive investor as I have a lot to loose... but Havieron is progressing very well
Slightly more nervous with the 'initial' gold grade predictions at Scally to be fair...
compared with Hav... but maybe better copper grades to be mined...
content to remain sitting on my hands to see what unfolds
over the coming months !! Best Rup
I get what you are saying. Totally. And most of this conversation is people talking past each other.
But what you are saying is based on a misunderstanding of how markets work. Maybe you understand but that understanding hasn't flowed through to what you've said here.
Share prices are not based on what is proven. They are based on what the market thinks the shares are worth. I'll illustrate with another of my investments, BP. Mainly, they produce and sell oil. Earlier this year, the price of oil went negative. BP share prices did not. Why not? Because the market assumed, rightly, that the price of oil would go up in future. At that point in time there was no proven value to what BP produces, but the market valued it, anyway.
Were BP shares overpriced at that point in time? By the logic you've presented here, they were. But everyone knew that wasn't reality, that they have oil and they will be able to sell it for something more than $0/barrel.
We may not know exactly how much gold is there, of course not. When we do, we still won't know what it's worth. What's gold in the ground worth? What's THIS gold in the ground worth? It's pretty much a racing certainty that this gold in the ground is worth more than Solgold's because it won't take the same CAPEX and will be in production sooner. How much more? That's as much of a guess as the guess as to how much is there. We're now getting into very educated guesses. We're pretty well past the uncertainty of "will this be mined?" It's going to be mined. We don't know what the MRE will be, but even then, the E stands for "Estimate."
It's all guesses. That doesn't mean that the right value is 0 or 1p. The facts we certainly know put everyone's guesses well beyond that, rightly so. Your guess of $200 for gold in the ground is probably very low.
Yes, that value has been used at times in the past. The problem is that it doesn't really fit all that well with the very low CAPEX here, the high Cu concentration, or the rapidly increasing price of gold.
The value of gold in the ground is NOT directly proportional to the POG. Increasing POG does not increase AISC significantly. A large increase in POG means a large, if not equal, increase in price of gold in the ground. Gold is at historic highs, and likely to climb. We have the option to mine if the price offered for gold in the ground is too low. Your valuation is full of guesses, too, and some of them are suspect.
Everyone's entitled to share their own opinion, it won't change the shareprice. I'm looking forward to seeing the next results and the MRE but the only calculations that really matters is how much Newcrest or anyone else is going to pay GGP.
Well Zoros,you certainly started a long discussion with your thoughts, I suppose we want to be optimistic and dont want any doubt to where we are heading, I look at this way we are all surfers and riding a monster wave that only appears on very rare occasions so jump on and enjoy a fantastic ride,after all there is room for everyone! G.L.A.
Think Zorros is just a ‘glass half empty’ kinda guy - pretty sure he’s invested here as he’s often on the SOLG board waving the GGP flag lol
Zoros clown filtered as I can only stand so much ****e !
Spy - why the derogatory coments? What has actually upset you about my statements?
I am not deramping, I am a LTH. I was simply trying to untangle the value of the SP before a MRE and after. The AISC is deployed after the quantity of the mineral is known. Calculations can then begin to determine how much it will cost to get the stuff out of the ground and sell to market. Before any MRE's, IE......when the volume and its value is not confirmed or is "inferred", the market assumes a variable rate historically, which today is between $150 - $200 / Oz.
I am surpirsed die hard posters still confuse the two.
TomE - if you can't be bothered to refer to previous posts and simply want to jump in when you feel like it and ask questions which have already been aswered - try and atleast keep it civil will you?
Why are anonymous people happy to slot individuals on the internet without reading carefully. Would you behave like this in person?
In summary - |I have not deramped GGP or SOLG. I am trying to highlight why the stock(s) are perceived to be either under or over valued at todays current price.
There is no intention to p i s s on your chips guys, OK. Don't feel insulted by someone trying to sort the wheat from the chaff. We are in this together and we live by each of our decisions. I am NOT insulting your integrity....OK?