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"They’ll basically chop themselves off from the major global capital markets"
Heres the thing...they already are.
Their choice would have been to stay on London exchange. We have to be pragmatic ..they are on the way off of it.
So who would blame them looking elsewhere . If Dubai starts mopping up russian business and then some Chinese and Indian etc etc.
Besides Dubai ..is only one possibility...my guess is that they will end up somewhere else...rather Dubai than moscow
“ Buck...the reality is that places like Dubai are trying to establish themselves as major players...so are happy to welcome rich international companies”
Actually Dubai has always been hostile towards foreign investment and is slowly turning around. The USA and the UK are the worlds foremost stock exchanges and are therefore the natural places for global players to reside. How much capital can Evraz raise when needed sat in the Dubai exchange.
They’ll basically chop themselves off from the major global capital markets.
Infinity and his telegram group are filling peoples heads with nonsense.
doom and gloom.Were all going to die captain mannering.When i see doom and gloom ,i just move on by.Really not interested.I like good news.
really funny.well done. Maybe the lSE might move to north korea.Totally disgusted and alienated by the treatment of Evraz.plc
I too have taken paper certs for my trading account and left my ISA shares with a broker.
@captainSwag I think you’re right on the binary nature of this one, but like you say, the SP has stayed steady!
Well after not really having a clue what to do for best(and still don't) I have asked HL for paper certs. Let's hope this works out well for all us holders and at some point in the not too disdant future can start to see some returns in one form or another.
Just another note if any people that have already gone through the process can assist, I have asked for the paper certs from HL, do I need to do anything else at the moment or do I just sit tight and wait for forms to start arriving in the post? Regards, Shaun
Well, in the truest of 'Sitting on the fence' traditions, I've decided to get paper for my trading acc shares and keep the ISA ones where they are. The ISA has about twice the number, so could (if all goes well) be a good tax free cash generator. It's all though with the Gods, but I've everything crossed.
GLASH
Buck...the reality is that places like Dubai are trying to establish themselves as major players...so are happy to welcome rich international companies. This war will shuffle the pack in terms of winners and losers.
Their neutrality will suit evraz too
I don't see the certs as guaranteeing any more security than being held digitally...but I do see it as being potentially more flexible and quicker to adapt.
As well as potentially being cheaper in the future to dispose of.
I suspect it is very binary..
We will all do very well or end up with nothing
Personally I welcome all sides of the arguments.
Worth considering all alternatives and it won't make a difference to SP anyway
I'm not trying to put anyone on a downer, besides, if you can't be realistic on your investments, you shouldn't be investing.
I do take issue with some of the blatently nonsense stuff which gets posted here about dividends being paid out to paper shares, or blah, blah, blah. There is always the Telegram group to discuss the nonsense in, it's welcome there!
So why continue to try and put the boards readers on a downer?
So why continue to try and put the boards readers on a downer?
I prefer to be realistic, also to think through what might be and make educated decidions which will hopefully yield a return. Im this scenario we're all at the whim of the gods anyhow. What will be, will be. We can't change a thing.
buckeye, you know absolutely Jack about what the future holds, just like the rest of us. Why spreaf the doom and gloom?
For me, I prefer to be optomistic.
I know there are lots of exchanges recognised, that's not really my point. I think if this delists from LSE then it's unlikely to come back at all as the steel industry is critical infrastructure and specifically it's critical war infrastructure. If Russia moves onto more of a war footing then it's guaranteed that EVRAZ will be producing product for the Russian military somehow and likely that it will be requisitioned.
The alternative way of viewing this situation is that the major shareholders cannot receive dividends (or do as they wish with the company) while us pesky Western shareholders exist, so we need to be got rid of with the minimum fuss and the company probably taken private.
It's all speculation of course. The company may not be able to sell ENA, or if it does may not be able to touch the money. The war may end or the company may choose to stay on the LSE and abide by the law. No-one knows at this point, but I'd say the probability of seeing a return from this share drops dramatically if the ENA assets have gone.
It's also worth remembering that Russia is looking to cause harm to the West. If that includes shafting shareholders in EVRAZ, then it's probably something that will happen. The four oligarchs can be rewarded elsewhere or later and we can be hung out to dry.
After leaving it right to the last minute, and speaking to HL on the phone, I've decided to take my paper certificates.
In the future, I could always deposit my certificate back with HL, and if not, there is apparently a possibility that Evraz will be setting up their own registrar to trade the shares. Either way, I feel there is more hope in me getting something back in the future with paper certificates.
Time will tell I guess.
If this was to be listed on a different exchange, what does that mean for our shares?
Lost? transferred to a new exchange?
Buck.
I don't agree at all. One simple qualification method regarding the legitamacy of a stock exchange is weather or not it is recognised by HMRC, I think that they probably know more than you do. There are many exchanges recognised. End Of.
If Evraz decide to list on one of those is not known. So it's a known unknown to to speak!!
If you want to raise money, have liquid shares and be correctly valued then you need to be on a 'proper' exchange and behave as a responsible, audited, believable company.
Then and only then can you be persecuted..................right?
And how many shares have you traded on SIX or DFM before? Could you even name a company that's listed on either of those?
Individuals may find it useful to use countries such as UAE, Switzerland, Argentina, Indonesia, etc to hide away in times of danger/hardship/persecution/to avoid the law/to avoid taxes/etc but it doesn't benefit a multinational company to be anywhere but the major exchanges. If you want to raise money, have liquid shares and be correctly valued then you need to be on a 'proper' exchange and behave as a responsible, audited, believable company. Anything else makes you look like you have something to hide. The only place EVRAZ will list again is MOEX and that's assuming it relists at all in the current format, which I doubt. If this delists from LSE you shouldn't expect to see anything back.
Buck..you have some interesting points. And some are defo worrying.
However I disagree about not listing in somewhere like Dubai. It makes perfect sense to me as they will continue to be an international company and traded ....Dubai is going to be the next Switzerland by some accounts.
Hi All.
Just got off the phone with Interactive Investor, the person I spoke to seemed very well versed in the situation, answered all the questions I asked and expanded on them a bit.
Q1.. When delisted on LSE if listed on another exchange (or not), if the company pays a dividend and I still have my shares in nominee account, will I recieve that divi money and can I withdraw it?
A1.. Yes, you will still recieve that money into your account and it is able to be withdrawn. The rep also saw that I have both ISA and non-ISA acc's and made no qualifying statements regarding either of them. The rep made no mention to any differences between the two accounts situations or conditions.
Q2.. Can Evraz shares in my accounts be sold without my express permission?
A2.. No, they cannot, the only thing that can change/influence my shareholding is if the company itself (Evraz) did something to cancel the shares. (I have another stock that's gone to zero years ago, and those shares are still shown, but of zero value in my account). If held in nominee acc I cannot sell the shares unless the company relists onto a qualifying exchange, so they do seem to be "locked in" to a degree at least though. (My words not theirs).
Q3.. Is their cut off date for paper certs (12/08/22) really final or just quicker to expidite by that date.?
A3.. It's final, after that date they will remain in nominee acc.
Hope this helps a bit.
GLASH.
All this talk of nods and winks is simply not realistic or credible. All shares are treated the same whether they're managed for you in a nominee account or held as paper certificates. The chances of listing in Dubai are slim to non existant and a fantasy born of Russians relocating there personally to protect their wealth from either samctions or the Russian state. Evraz is run to benefit it's main shareholders and to provide critical materials to Russia (and most importantly critical wartime materials). If you think about how those two objectives could be met then other shareholders and how the company will be viewed in the West become irrelevant. The chances that Evraz will even stick to the law would be doubtful. My expectation now would be the company claws back what it can from the ENA assets and is then nationalised (requisitioned) by the Russian state as part of the war effort. I hope I'm wrong, but I don't see many other ways this could progress. If there was any chance that EVRAZ was going to be doing what's best for shareholders they wouldn't be selling ENA, they'd be spinning it out into a separate company where we gain a shareholding. They're not doing that, so expect to lose what you've invested here.
divis are a long way off and all shareholders would be treated equally.
i suspect they want cash to secure the company and be able to pay debt etc. the west has become a hostile environment and shown that they are anti evraz due to RA. if evraz are innocent it is unfair and if they are guilty then things are not going to get better in the short term - as the war could potentially go on for quite awhile,
i suspect once they are off the stock market here - and sanctioned - they will look to change the company and list elsewhere (eg dubai which seems to be the current favourite for ruskies at the moment) . the assets are in russia and in uk i suspect there is nothing they could not just walk away from.
so the question is will they honour their western SH?. i think they have given a wink with paper certs. you will be able to trade them on another index.
i think shares digitally held may be more difficult or slower to trade should this happen.
the west has torn up the rule book with evraz - so i think expecting them to play by the rules later on could be unrealistic. much will depend if they are willing to be patient and wait i hope of getting back on lse or whether they just say FCUK it
Get a paper cert. your in control then
Still undecided whether to go paperless or not. My concern is that by not going paperless the broker would not act in accordance with my wishes if, for example, Evraz delists from LSE and delists on another stock exchange. The broker might sell my shares (for a pittance) rather than transfer the shares into my name and enable me to continue to hold the shares if I wanted to. Can a broker do this or are they obliged to transfer legal title to my name so that I effectively go paperless later? I could ask the broker but not sure I’d trust the answer or I’d be speaking to a muppet on the phone.