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JonhZ
What GW is doing as usual is not answering very straightforward questions. He will argue all day, and then disappear when he can't answer a question favourably. I think you know the answer to your question as do I.
Not quite sure why he feels the need to big himself up, we are clearly not all the same !!
BigEye (as below) has had him GW pegged pretty accurately from day one.
All imo pdyor
Foxi is there not anything you have not been a part of?
There is so much Jackanory in your posts ( just like a big larry )
NDA is as much use as a chocolate teapot, just like signing the Official Secrets Act!
Thank the Lord I have never been involved in any of your so called companies, ( Hmmmm ) especially if you spout that kind of jibberish to the workies.
CD your having a laugh.
JohnZ - depends if you're talking gross or net. Aerial will help you - he knows everything and is nearly at his 19,000 so needs the posts. I have month end to cover off today so I can't engage with him. :-)
GW - just a quick question on profit and loss.
Is it not true a company can make an actual profit with what it does but in the end it makes a loss by say, writing down something, good will, plant and machinery etc...
GW
Just a small example as sausage posted. So you agree that the £888,045 (H1 2018 loss of £544,959) was a physical loss and not money the company spent for the development of the company?
All imo pdyor
Aerial
Just for your info I went through a listing and IPO process in 2002 as a Director so know a bit about "funding" as you call it. And before you ask I'm covered by a NDA until my 65th birthday so don't ask me any additional questions on here. If I do ever meet you, or anyone else from this board, I'll happily share my experience. I've also been a Director for one or two PLCs, as I am one now.
Your view on "loss" is factually incorrect but it is pointless debating with you as you are never wrong, but a company loss is when ANY expenditure is more than income, which we have via revenue from our working mine. It's not in development and wasn't in 2018s accounts.
AIM companies are not "continually funded" and rely upon raising capital through shares. As demonstrated in our successful raise earlier last year at 0.12, if people don't buy those shares, you don't raise a penny.
Interesting post last night and a clear insight into why we no longer have any meaningful debates anymore on here. You've driven everyone off, even our experts.
And you say you have no agenda.....
Sausage
As explained a loss as used for purposes of accounting and losing money are not the same. If you are a funded aim which we are or you have not reached profit you are spending the funds which is expenditure, and that expenditure is shown in the accounts as a loss as that's how it's accounted. Expenditure as opposed to income. Until expenditure is more than income the accounts can only show it as a loss. Spending the funds raised is for the development of the Company. If we break even and go into profit losses will be losses, until that time it's expenditure.
All imo pdyor
Aerial
Taken from the interims in September 2019
"The Group made a loss after taxation of £888,045 (H1 2018 loss of £544,959)."
Just want to point out that Jeff states "made a loss" so when you say they haven't lost a penny, Jeff would beg to differ, as would I, as would GreenWolf, as would plenty of others.
No one is thrown under the bus aerial, I'm still here, just as you are. I have a job to do so don't have time to post through the day every day. I'm looking forward to the next time you heap praise on the BoD, to see the reaction on this board.
I note the price is up, my opinion is this is associated with the mine opening up in a country not in lockdown.
GW
"All you ever want to do is talk down to people" ? I refer you to your bigoted comment at 14:46 today towards three members of this board !
"talk about things that aren't quite the topic of the post and generally p**s people off" So it's me that's captious?.. and you don't think you p**s people off??
Have you got an agenda?
Are you sumbawanga ??
I said you had a problem with my post count! A tad insecure I'd guess. Where you bottle fed ??
You are partially correct, but I have been here much longer than that and had another 5,000 odd posts. I can't imagine how you would feel if all 24,000 were on show..
Thank you for the compliment, and I agree I probably am more knowledgeable than you. Something I might think, but definitely not something I'd say if you hadn't of brought it up.
I clearly don't have your super hero powers, neither thankfully your lack of comprehension !!
I've been attacked here for my views by experts for years and I'm still here, they are all gone., my views are unchanged. You're not really an adversary with your weak attempts to score points.
It's you that gets riled. Best not engage or maybe use the filter !!
Sausage is still smiling I'd bet!! Wonder if he'll throw you under the bus tomorrow? I'll still be here !!
All imo pdyor
Aerial - you're clearly far more knowledgeable than me.
You continue to take some delight in riling people on here. Teaye over the weekend yet another example.
All you ever want to do is talk down to people, talk about things that aren't quite the topic of the post and generally p**s people off.
You'll be accusing me of having an agenda next.....or being someone else.
The fact you have posted almost 19,000 times in six and a half plus years and admitted to having been on here every day for nine years just about sums you up. Empty vessels and all that.
GW
Again your captiousness shines through, as does your seeming lack of comprehension.
What I have been posting all day is quite clear in response to your "We are losing money every single month. Fact"
You knew exactly what I was talking about as there is no profit or loss just expenditure, AND imo there will be nothing other than expenditure until past break-even and are well into profit.
You've clearly sidestep your bigoted remarks about 3 members! We don't know who they are, but they do, and doubtful they will forget.
Seems sausage threw you under the bus for the second time, guess he's sunbathing with a cheeky wry smile !
All imo pdyor
Aerial - well we've clearly been describing apples and pears between us, but its more around context. I'm on about P&L and our ability to continue as a going concern.
That's the problem, because whatever you or I want to use or describe it as, you can't spend more than you bring in indefinitely.
GW
I actually don't need to spell it out in any detail as members here are very intelligent and more informed than you appear to believe reading your 14:46 bigoted post.
Expenditure prior to profitability is monies spent to enable AIM companies to fund their development and pursue their growth ambitions. Expenditure prior to profitability is not a loss, it's expenditure.
As I said to the best of my knowledge the company have never lost a penny, but have expended a few !!
Don't worry GW only 8 or 9 more years if it doesn't rain !
All imo pdyor
At least a few on here think you are a hero --------------------------to zero
aerial - you've lost the plot, completely.
GW
I'll say it again, you clearly don't have a rudimentary understanding of AIM, or how or why Company's are funded. Running at a loss for the purposes of accounting and losing money are not the same thing, and if you seriously believe they are then there is absolutely no point in talking to you.
Seems people (3 now) recommending my posts really bothers you as you often mention it!,... as does my post count! You even worked out my daily average. You really are a sad case for a purported telephone super hero !! (a severe lack of modesty in that post). So I'm no longer surprised by your captious narcissistic ramblings.
All imo pdyor
aerial - "the company haven't to the best of my knowledge lost a penny"...……...is the hot weather getting to you? I'd also like to understand who's recommended your post, because they have no understanding of P&L either.
Do you understand what cost of sales and revenue mean? And what "loss" means in the accounts?
And what's this rudimentary understanding of AIM and "continually funded" rubbish?
GW
As I said you clearly don't have a rudimentary understanding of AIM. Your 12:45 is the biggest load of rubbish I have ever read!! and the company haven't to the best of my knowledge lost a penny.
Good to see you having a bit of banter with sausage, Great minds and all that !! lol
All imo pdyor
bigeye - it's a great read - I'll lend it to you if you want. All the Annual Reports and accounts are in the appendices, although you need to understand what the figures mean otherwise it's just pages and pages of numbers :-)
Hope your dinner was nice on Friday - sounded lovely
Aye ! so back to your history of EDL book.
Sausage - "Can't argue with those facts GW". Somebody will - time to switch off.
aerial - most AIM companies used to be funded on the prospect of something becoming reality, although there are a fair few AIM companies that simply use the platform because it has a more flexible approach to governance than the main market.
But that's not the point - it doesn't matter if it's AIM, FTSE 250 or anything. It's the economics. You can't continue to borrow money with limited prospects of paying it back. Investors don't keep pumping money into something that has a diminishing chance of return.
The FACTS are there - we lost £1.2m in 2017 and £1.8m in 2018, yet we were mining for three months in 2017 and 12months in 2018. That simply doesn't add up commercially and you can't continue operating like that indefinitely. The 2019 results are really important, because if the cost of sales has increased and our losses widen, we've got a very big problem, because that means the business model isn't working.
"There is a distinct difference between losing and using money before a Company has reached profitability" - indeed there is, but we're losing AND using money.
There is a distinct difference between losing and using money before a Company has reached profitability. AiM's are continually funded, and more often than not for long after they reach profitability. Those with a rudimentary understanding of AIM will know that. Even when Edenville break-even it would be naive to assume funding will immediately stop.
Still a long way to go, maybe 8 years! ?..
All imo pdyor
Can't argue with those facts GW.
We are losing money every single month. Fact.
It doesn't matter whether we have a 10year plan or a 10month plan - if our cost of sales is so much higher than our revenue because we cannot get economies of scale, we will reach a point where we have no more money and, if we can't raise it, we're stuffed. The alternative is you continue to build a pile of debt (which is what is happening) and your breakeven becomes so large to service all that debt that you will never get there, which means shareholders will never get a return. That is exactly why our share price is where it is. It's basic economics.
We are not "well placed" at this point in time, let alone subject to future funding - how long have we been trying to get to break even and getting nowhere, except burning cash? Excuse after excuse as to why we cannot get to 10,000t per month. Our MCap reflects that - there is no confidence in the market that we can get there quick enough to be able to adequately service our debt.
It's not abut believing or not believing what is in RNSs. It's about the balance sheet fundamentals of us losing money and all the fluffy plans, hopes and beliefs of our BoD are irrelevant to how our P&L looks. It really is that simple.
We're due our annual results this month - there needs to be one almighty rabbit pulled out of the hat over the next four weeks. We lost almost £1.8m on our operations in 2018 (our first full year of mining), up from £1.2m in 2017. So, in 2018 we had revenue from sales yet still managed to lose more money than in 2017. That's the huge problem.