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Darren, we are all awaiting the outcome of the court case due to take place next month
I guess some people just like talking on here, maybe they can't except they made a mistake on Debenhams,no more Debenhams shares oh no lol.
We are still optimistic, only non believers loose hope who have no faith
I'm surprised that the Debenhams chat is still going on,it's gone finished, what's the point of the Debenhams Share Chat,I only looked to see if it still exists.
"And recommended by HL, just like the Woodford fund."
Ive just checked HL's site. They so "HL comment is not available for this stock."
"And recommended by HL, just like the Woodford fund."
You think if I've been at this for 30 years I take muck notice of recommendations LOL :)
"Tasty, as in around the all time low levels?"
Yes, it's at all time lows. It's recently been added to the fund I mentioned below. If they can keep that div. going it pays for the waiting. I guess the thing that bothers me is when you look at the relationship between profitable years it breaks down quickly. That was my initial response looking at it quickly. Deep Value Trust comment that it's been profitable for the last 13 years. There's a suggestion they are having a problem with some staff. That's not a very good sign, it is after all a people based business. I may put a note on my wash list and a trigger, mainly to see if it test 38p again. This close the 31 October I don't see a need to rush. I also can't see a trigger point to drive it forward. Sentiment doesn't do it for me. If you are long term holder you can find sentiment evaporate quickly. I might see if i can put together a long term div & simple profit spreadsheet, just to satisfy myslelf about what they do if tough markets. We might be getting one of those.
Tasty, as in around the all time low levels?
And recommended by HL, just like the Woodford fund.
Pearls, tell me honestly, how much success have you had in buying basket case stocks?
And, assuming that you have been hitherto disastrous in your purchases, what makes you think your 'strategy' is worth pursuing?
Cenkos looks a bit tasty, comes along with a hefty div according the HL.
No, I'm a full time private investor.
I've been doing this for almost 30 years, part time for the last decade, full time for the last couple of years.
They maybe having sell out "specials", but that doesn't detract from the issue of the major sharholding specialising in complex, difficult, bumpy (their words), value plays. There's nothing wrong with that. But, you have to recognise that's a high burn portfolio. It's going to be no easy ride. It's a long play strategy. The kind of stocks you trade if they have momentum, this doesn't, or you put them in the bottom draw and see if they are still alive every few months.
I'd consider holding similar if I had a portfolio of 10 or 20 of them. Along the way you'd expect a high number of them to go no where, bust. Recovery plays aren't so different to early stage. You build losses in to your expectation.If you are interested in "Deep Value" this might be of interest:
I hold REC.L, which is 5% of the Trust, good management team, decent yield, not bad value at the present price.
It might be worth buying a copy of Jeroen Bos's book if you like these type of stocks. I haven't read it, but I might just buy a copy.
Devon, out of curiosity are you also a stamp collector?
SGI’s range has definitely markedly improved and they have been holding a series of Exclusive auctions in recent months all of which have been sell-outs
This is what I'm remembering:
The Stanley Gibbons Group PLC ("the Company")
Agreement with Phoenix S. G. Limited ("Phoenix SG")
On 27th February 2018, the Company posted a circular to shareholders outlining various proposals to effect a refinancing of the Company which were subsequently approved on 16 March 2018. As a part of these proposals, an inventory acquisition agreement was entered into by Phoenix UK Fund Limited ("Phoenix UK") pursuant to which Phoenix UK acquired certain trading inventory consisting of approximately 1,900 items with a value of £3.25 million (the "Portfolio") from the administrators of Stanley Gibbons Guernsey Limited. Phoenix UK subsequently sold the Portfolio to a wholly owned subsidiary, Phoenix SG.
The Company announces that its subsidiary, Stanley Gibbons Limited ("SGL") has today entered in to an agreement with Phoenix SG under which SGL has agreed to acquire the majority of the Portfolio from Phoenix SG for an initial consideration of £5.2million, which is payable in cash to Phoenix SG over the term of the agreement, as and when sales of the inventory are made to third parties and will be the net proceeds, after deduction of a commission payment to be made to SGL, on completed sales. The commission payment is in line with that which SGL would earn on similar deals with unrelated parties. The agreement is for a total term of 10 years and any sale at a value that is less than the base cost of an inventory item can only be made with the specific permission of Phoenix SG. To the extent that all of the inventory is sold and the appropriate payments have been made by SGL to Phoenix SG no further consideration will be due. To the extent that inventory remains to be sold at the end of the agreement the relevant inventory will be returned to Phoenix SG and no further consideration will be due.
Phoenix SG is currently interested in 58.09 per cent. of the issued share capital of the Company and the transaction referred to above constitutes a transaction with a related party of the Company for the purposes of the AIM Rules. The Directors of the Company (excluding Graham Shircore who is the CEO of the Company and an appointee of Phoenix SG) consider, having consulted with finnCap Limited, that the terms of the transaction are fair and reasonable so far as the Company's shareholders are concerned.
As a result of this agreement SGL will have both the opportunity to make commissions from subsequent sales but also to further improve the range of items it is able to offer, which will be exclusively available for sale, from its website and specialist dealers.
"affecting your judgment to relook at it again now from an unbiased viewpoint?"
I still hold my shares, so I doubt it. Are you sure your desire to make up losses isn't making you take greater risks than you should, or can afford?
As I said, they'll be able to make money even if the share price doesn't react.
"It is in a materially different financial position", yes, but the loans have been provided by the major shareholder.....
Do you know the terms of those loans, what the security is, the interest payments?
As I say, they can make money even without a short term exit.
I seem to remember they bought some stock from SGI then sold it back to them at a profit. Let me see if I can find that.
In fairness I haven’t bought TCG but am studying it and the reaction by investors to each development as it really reminds me of Debenhams
As regards SGI I wonder if your bad experience previously when it was under completely different management is affecting your judgment to relook at it again now from an unbiased viewpoint?
It is in a materially different financial position now and stopped guaranteeing investment returns over a year ago via its Guernsey branch which enabled it to offload most of its liabilities at the time.
"By the way regards TCG, the board itself has warned of significant dilution to existing shareholders. Ignore at your own peril. (I am sure in Pearls' mind this is the big green flag to buy shares)"
wouldn't touch it with a barge pole!
"Devon its a bit futile trying to help someone who appears determined to set their capital on fire"
You do come across people who appear to want that don't you. It's like they have a financial death wish. It's almost like a form of sadomasochism.
Stamp collectors in bondage LOL not an image you want in your head hahaha
Devon its a bit futile trying to help someone who appears determined to set their capital on fire, as appears to be Pearls' strategy.
By the way regards TCG, the board itself has warned of significant dilution to existing shareholders. Ignore at your own peril. (I am sure in Pearls' mind this is the big green flag to buy shares)
I had been wondering how Pearls even manages to log on to this BB to write this nonsense, yet it appears the fella is even having trouble with that.
You realise how risky it is? Say in comparison to holding a large cap or index. After a loss "chasing" profits can be a very risky startegy that leads you into taking bigger and bigger risks. I prefer to play these type of recovery plays through a fund. They can leverage much more muscle. In this case Pheonix is a very high conviction player. Appears you've identified at least 2 of their 20 potential positions. Lets hope they aren't like investors in start-up, who expect 1 in 16 to give them a total return. The 15 others they expect to burn. Risky stuff if you can't afford to loose the cash. I'm hoping you've got a basket of holdings to offset that risk?
Devon, yes that is the correct Phoenix. And it is one of their senior analysts - Graham Shircore who is now in charge there at SGI. Another company they are involved with is Hornby - the toy train specialists. They now own 58% of SGI’s stock and have completely overhauled the Board and repositioned the company over the last 18 months
Just out of interest have you done any research on Pheonix UK?
Is this them https://www.phoenixassetmanagement.com/phoenix-uk-fund/
High conviction/specialist turn around/value. For sophisticated investors and high-nets.
And watch out for those "Related Party Transaction". They don't need a share price recovery to make mone out of the business.
They can make loans, buy assets and them sell them back and restructure the equity.
I'd want to see progress before even considering it. Still too much like a punt to me with very little chance of becoming indispensable. Avoid would be my view.
Good luck with it.
Devon, thanks for your comments - really most appreciated. I am especially interested to note your comments on SGI. That company used to be trading over £3 a share and now it is just 2.15p which must be close to a record collapse in value so you won’t be alone in losing a lot of money on it. Whilst I am a keen stamp collector I fortunately only became involved in its shares once the management changed, and in particular once Phoenix came in and stabilised things.
It now looks to me like things are turning around at last, and a major announcement is due next month at Stampex. Currently the shares are actually trading below the price Phoenix paid so for me that makes them bargain territory. Hopefully I’ll make back my losses on Debenhams via SGI! Full year results are due next month
I should say VTA can be a very risk proposition. I'd only consider a slow build up.
LSE is showing the yield as almost 9%
If this type of thing appeals VSL still looks under values to me and the yield is nearly 11%. I hold a full position of the stock, just over 2% of my portfolio.
The company and Directors have been buying the stock back at a ferocious rate. I'm the red in the stock, but not when you take total return into consideration.