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I disagree Stuart to a large extent and I'll explain why.
Indepthwins has taken so much stick on here for a long time. Loads. Including from me. And I think we were wrong to do that. Yesterday he/she was vindicated to a large extent because everything they've said was in that RNS and the price dropped. So fair play to him. He called it. And I apologise for.my own ridicule.
However, the truth is, the future of Cineworld is largely out of its own control. None of us can tell the future. That's why large institutions of 'experts' buy and sell the same stock each day. It's all opinions.
We gather our own facts, we place a considered weighting on them and make our own conclusions.
I don't think indepthwins is wrong. He makes good points. Yesterday showed that.
However, our opinions just differ. He places a different weighting on aspects of his considered evidence that we do. And that's fine. No1s right or wrong until it's proven to be so.
We all make reasonable predictions with our own research and foresight. I think he makes good points. I really do. Valid points. So I understand his position and he defends it well. So to.me he's not wrong. But in my opinion, for me, I don't put as much weighting to these factors as he does and I choose to give greater weighting to other aspects and that's why my position differs.
It's all the same. Some buy. Some sell. Oh well.
As an honest human being I get the distinct impression that there are lots of individuals out there who just want Cine to go down the toilet. Fair play we are all different but seriously I just don’t get it. I understand shorters but the rest nah. All the best to your families though.
I don't disagree with what you're saying. I think we disagree in the severity of the debt. I don't take it into consideration quite as much as you do.
Yes, I understand they're intangible assets. They rent a lot of their premises. But they're still assets.
Look at coca cola. Take away its manufacturing arm and what is it? Brand name. Mostly intangible really but it's worth a hell of a lot.
Cine is similar to this extent when talking about its debt. Yes it has debt but the depth of that debt is massively offset when you look at why it has that debt.
The balance sheet is deceiving for this reason.
I'm not saying don't consider debt. I'm not saying you're wrong but I think our personal perception of that debt is different.
If it was debt because it was a loss making business. I'd agree. It isnt, ordinarily, a loss making business.
It makes money. And a lot of money. Covid is an exceptional circumstabce.
I take Hosais Twitter link earlier to great interest. My personal opinion is people believe what the media tell them and the media spin the fairytales and fear of death and covid hell. The truth is, covid isn't that bad, it never was that bad. It's not another TB, it's not another smallpox...it's a virus with a very small death rate, that's well tolerated in the vast majority of the population and I personally believe that in decades to come this covid-19 pandemic will be studied in university psychology lessons as a case study on mass hysteria and in media lessons as a case study on the power of media influence on society.
@PinkEye
Israel's Sayeret Matkal 13, is one of the world's most elite units.
Its primary purpose is intelligence gathering. Are also one of the most secretive.
Most of their missions are highly classified. That is exactly what is our Mookey
he's made of when it comes to be a though negotiator and will hold his best
cards to his chest till the best deal is on the table. Never mind what Indepthwins
or Investroid thinks about the Cineworld future. NoFear
Israelis really are the toughest of negotiators.
They will plead absolutely poverty to get the lowest price and the best deal. I swear they go to special school for it before they finish up with National service.
That is all Mookey has done with the results. He has set the tone for any current debt negotiations as the short term SP has no affect on him. But he also showed some light at the end of tunnel to show a good future for creditors.
I think it was probably an absolute master stoke by him.
There won’t be life without cinemas, that won’t happen, however, cinemas will live on even if Ciniworld doesn’t.
@All - It all depends on your strategy as an investor, some businesses are still doing well in the covid storm, it's all about timing the right opportunity with some solid research into a company.
I have sold half of my holdings here to invest in other companies which makes perfect investor sense, moving around funds where I see a quicker return, it's pro-active to keep up with current affairs until the dust settles and we have more clarity on Covid so point in letting funds sit dormant, they need to work overtime for you as well!
CINE is BIG fish and it will not come to the point where anyone will challenge Mooky's territory unless it's Disney with a takoever offer who will be greeted with open arms. I still have a considerable holding in CINE and believe in the business which Mooky and his family have been in for a very long time... imagine life without Cinema's... no way, that will never happen!
Great Posts Jm.
We have to remember that cineworld have also slapped in millions of pounds on refurbing their cinemas. If mooky was worried, surely he would be saving every penny. I understand that certain things HAVE got to be reported, but he added so many un needed things into the RNS.
I don't care about the debt of Cineworld. Peoole keep going on about this but people seem to have a two dimensional view on debt. The debt was primarily acquired by investing in assets. So it's not a debt that doesn't represent anything. They bought profit achieving assets with debt. I see their debt as good debt just a shame the pandemic hit.
For example, if I buy a car with a £10k loan. I'm £10 in debt but I have a car for it. That car has a value. If I start using that car to do deliveries, it starts earning me money. I still have the £10k debt but I had a car that's worth money (albeit depreciating) but it's also ear ing me an income.
Cine has debt because it bought cinemas. It bought assets.
If cine can mitigate their debt which I think they will because why would people just forego £billions of money owed to them (doesn't make sense) then it means little to nothing to me.
All companies are in the same boat really. They're all hit. They're not all going out of business.
This is a gamble, but I think the odds are in out favour at these prices. That's my personal opinion and I've got shares in this so I'm putting my money where my mouth is.
Thanks Indebthwins
When you put it like that it sounds much better!
5 million debt per cinema
Average of 12 screens per cinema
At least 75 showings per day across all screens per cinema...
trying to justify their panic sells yesterday and quietly regretting it now, they will never admit to that, they just go about spurting rubbish about Cine and how bad things are, when in reality as things stand, they are in a far better position than they were during total global lockdown, all now on the sidelines waiting to buy back in the low 30's, why would they even contemplate that when they are spouting Cine going bust? just swallow the pill and get on with it, good times to come here for us with patience.