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WoW is fully correct.
Items held in an ISA are tax free.
That includes a tax loss free.
You can't have your cake and eat it!!
You gain the advantage with tax free profit, and suffer the dis-advantage with tax free loss.
I would have thought that at the point they fell out of your ISA and into your trading account and therefore your entry into the realms of capital gains the acquisition cost at that point would be zero (the market value at that date) and therefore zero loss.
I very much doubt you can claim a capital loss
For clarity:
by no market value, I mean that no value can be established because they are no longer listed.
The argument [if there is one] is that the zero value only came to pass later aftter courts have rubber stamped the stealing-deal. Therefore the value ascribed at time they are transferred out of the isa due to no longer qualifying is the book value as it was on the isa since no other value is available.
"I guess the question is that when the broker transfers the shares in that situation [when they are no longer traded and there is therefore no market value], what is their book value for CGT purposes according to ISA legislation. "
That's what I thought until I looked at the documentation from iweb just now.
On my ISA acct they sent a corporate action notification dated 2 august 2023 saying CINE cancelled admission to trading ... on LSE Main Market.
3 paras later says as no longer listed on recognised exchange, they no longer qualify to be held within an ISA. .... therefore we will transfer ... to your share dealing account.
In statement at end Sept still shows cine as inward/ouward stock adjustment with no of shares and no value mentioned. For end month shows a line with CINE and book value probably what I paid when I bought in the ISA.
Then in Feb 2024 have a corporate action notification that they are removed with no compensation ftrom the share dealing account.
In general I use the statements and the book cost shown on previous statement after a sale to determine capital gain or loss for CGT.
AFAICS I can do exactly that with CINE and record the book cost shown on the previous statement as a loss.
If that's wrong [it is unexpected but usually I fill my tax form in according to what the statements from the broker say], can someone point me to some rules from HMRC. I guess the question is that when the broker transfers the shares in that situation [when they are no longer traded and there is therefore no market value], what is their book value for CGT purposes according to ISA legislation.
What have other brokers said when they give corporate action notifications and subsequent statements with ISA shares forcibly removed to a non-ISA account but not yet disappeared completely?
For me this is a 20k loss shown on the statements so potentially 4k of CGT reduction assuming I never get the chance to take the CG without tax otherwise.
Interesting read: https://www.americanbar.org/groups/business_law/resources/business-law-today/2024-march/con-ed-damages-canadian-public-ma/
You can offset if the shares weren't held in an ISA account, but if you had them in your share dealing ISA you can't.
Hi there, does anyone who is a little more financially minded than me know if we can offset our tax liabilities (income or capital gains) against Cineworld loses?
May soften the blow a little.
Hi Takeapuntortwo, apologies for radio silence - the Shareholder Group likely has a record of your holdings, but just to be safe, please could you e-mail info@cineworld-shareholders.com with number of shares and their total cost.
As an update, an e-mail will be going out to holders in the next couple of weeks regarding next steps - Acuity have outlined the broad detail of the legal challenge that is most likely to succeed. Just as a heads-up, a small contribution will be asked of holders to cover the cost of an official lawyer's letter instructing Cineworld of our legal challenge (this is a formal and necessary part of the process). The letter will cost sub £10k (precise figure not yet confirmed; I'll let you know when I do); we have a couple of hundred people signed up to the shareholder group, so if everyone chips in then it shouldn't break the bank.
Ps, I share posters' pain of having their Cine holdings vanish - not a nice feeling, but not the end of the road! I read with interest that the Neil Woodford fund debacle reached a settlement this week - I'm not trying to get anyone's hopes up (including my own), but it was reassuring to see investors get at least something back from the tawdry affair.
Cheers, and I'll post back on the board with more info as it becomes available.
I’ve had notification too from Halifax Share Trading. All my holding completely gone.
Halifax just took away my shares. 19k gone 😩
How can we get a copy ?
Aj bell said the shares gone from account and can’t show the holding in account anymore
Thats great chipstacker , i read on here regular to see if theres any changes , do i have to register my holdings anywhere, ive done so before a wee while back
Thank you
Thanks @maidit308, much appreciated 👍
Acuity Law have responded with a detailed overview of the merits of the shareholders' legal case, and have made suggestions of the avenues most likely to succeed. The shareholder group will meet online with Acuity this week to discuss. I'll be back in touch following this with an update. Cheers all.
Thanks for the update Chip'' I still look in from time to time M8, and still hopeful no matter how long it takes..
ATB to you, and to everyone for 2024
Morning all, Happy New Year. Just a quick one to let you know that Acuity Law continue to look into the shareholder group's legal action. They will let us know as soon as they have received a full response from counsel (who is going through the group's documentation in detail). Best wishes to all for your 2024.
I Have Made Money on My Cryptocurrency Solana.
I Have Made £12,000 Profit.
However £2000 Doesn’t Feel as Bad But Some People Have Lost Serious Money on Here and I Feel For Them.
Also I Am Investing in Tech Stocks like Stne Co and Robinhood Markets.
Look mate, I’m not one to plug and ramp but perhaps do a bit of research on Empire Metals
They have discovered what is likely the biggest titanium field in the world
Or perhaps Rolls Royce if you want something a bit more stable?
Of course, after my losses here, I would never presume to tell people what to buy!!
What ever you do, I wish you better luck than with Cine which is perhaps with hindsight, sadly not that difficult. :o(
Same as you Rupple but I've not made any back. It stinks
Try £21k
And then start crying 😭
I’ve made it back on something else but still hurts
I wished i only had 2k to cry about.
Trading 212 Have Put My £2000 Worth of Cineworld Shares to 0.
This is Very Painful I Am Afraid :(.
Dean, this penny share thing is slightly misleading..the term 'fully paid' in terms of shares means that we, the investors, do not have to pay the company anything more as the shares are 'fully paid'....it just happens that the nominal price of the cine shares was 1 penny. They have 1,373,428,670 of these shares but they don't have £13 million sat around. I'm sorry mate but we've lost everything..hiring lawyers to try to get money back is useless, cineworld were a limited company so you can't go after the directors if they've not broken the law and the money that is/was left would have been used to pay creditors. The new cineworld are a totally separate business. we have to move on. I made a mistake in investing in a company that had massive debts with no possible way of ever paying it off, yes the directors of the company might have been incompetent buy they weren't as far as I know crooked. If it can be shown they cheated in some way then possibly a case to prosecute but I don't think that's the case.
Hi All, apologies for the delay. No update from Acuity Law as yet. They'd expected to able to confirm whether or not they'd be able to represent the case by 17th November (as per my previous post). I'll chase this up with them today and feed back asap.
Ps, Dean36, can you provide additional detail on the 1p payout you reference below? I haven't heard anything about this. Thanks.
@Dean best we can do is wait. The RSA and plan said they will spare share capital of cineworld parent(CINE Shares) And Cineworld Funding.