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I still can't for the life of me understand how, in the event of Cineworld losing, that the Court can award damages of anything over legal fees and broken deal costs which are chicken feed - IIRC $10 - 20m.
So it may be that someone has got a whiff that Cineplex will win the case, and is trading on that basis.
I don't think it's the end of the world and I will continue to hold, but this sort of trading pattern does nothing to give me confidence that the market isn't a false one.
As to the question will Cineplex get CAN$2.1bn, that is inconceivable - that would mean that the Court would be forcing through only one half of the deal which is absurd (in both the legal and common sense meaning)
And mine A01...if the case is "lost" then do all cinemas close cos CINE is breast uppermost; do all us punters lose our hard-earned cash while CINE Executives continue to drive their big cars with us all on bicycles; will the pop-corn ladies go on the streets; or will it be a disastrous few p off the SP. Just asking as a virgin in these matters.
Not dumb at all mate - they might think Cineworld has further to fall than Cineplex has to rise. Who knows.
Forgive my dumbness though, but if there was a lawyer type person thinking plex were going to win, wouldn't it be better to bet on plex's price going up, than CW going down? If plex were to win and get the 2.1B surely that would make more of a rise to sp of a lower priced share?
Think everyone getting way ahead of themselves , haven't you heard we are gonna win the case 100%.
I heard it here first.......second and third.
Disclosure I'm still confident we will based on testimonials of other posters
It is possible there could be a link.
It could also be possible it is part of a high-risk strategy to potentially profit from an adverse (Cineworld) outcome. It may be they have a legal expert that is familiar with cases similar to this and is confident of a Cineplex win and it is therefore worth a punt. I am sure the short represents small exposure but enough to generate a decent amount fo upside should it go their way.
It could also be in connection with Covid. They may be confident of an adverse outcome for Cineworld off the back of Omicron. Who knows
More like it is an elaborate double bluff open a position so investors think exactly that and sell off thus achieving the goal
Question - a if we’re going to assume the worst and we lose the case, is Market value of the company (Cineworld) taken into account? £667m atm
I agree it is a really daft time to short (like NHC level of daft), and as much as I don't like conspiracies, it does stink a bit.
That said, one would imagine that if word was out, Cineplex would also be on the up. Likely to just be coincidence that they are based in Ontario, with the timing of the new variant, they are probably just be another hedge fund that have just pushed their luck because they happen to have seen the company name in the papers recently.....but if I was Mookie I would still want to know for sure, and I would have somebody looking into it for sure.
It does sound pretty far fetched to me though, but IF this was the case, Barbara will have really let me down - which I am sure she would be saddened to learn.
@LPD The judgement won't be published until then, but the decision has probably already been made.
If you have ever seen the size of these judgements, they run to several hundred pages, so the delay isn't in coming to the conclusion, it's the writing up of the justifciation that takes the time.
Maybe someone's relative or friend works as a secretary/ in the reprograghics department or whatever and saw an early draft or initial thoughts.
Wellington - I hadn’t thought of the court angle, did think it was a possibility that they knew when the variant would be publicised. That would stink more than my conspiracy theory from earlier.
Interesting thought Wellington but reasoning we never get to know on here. In truth probably wide of the mark and based on what you yourself posted.
Wellington99
Posted in: CINE
Posts: 159
Price: 61.20
No Opinion
Court Case Timing20 Nov 2021 14:32
Cineplex did an update call that had a small mention of the case:
"Before I turn things over to Gord, I would like to provide a brief update on the Cineworld litigation. As you may have heard, the trial has now concluded with the closing arguments having finished last week, we feel confident in the integrity of the process that unfolded before the Ontario Superior Court and anticipate that judgment several months. "
That would suggest February onwards if several is taken to mean "more than two but not manymore"
https://seekingalpha.com/article/4468428-cineplex-inc-cpxgf-ceo-ellis-jacob-on-q3-2021-results-earnings-call-transcript
Sorry I’ve missed this. Do we have a rough time expectation for the judgement?
What a crap end to the day
FTSE 100, 250 and 350 only + 1% too
I thought it was a strange time to short us.
I went back 7 pages on the short data and couldn't find them , very unusual te to join the party
@LPD The volume today could also mean a shorter selling into the rally.
If the Toronto, Ontario based K2 & Associates pop up again with a bigger short over the next few days then I think we can be pretty sure that someone's cousin works in the Court House and knows something.
They have no previous interest in Cineworld as far as I'm aware and to wait until the SP hits the mid 50s to start shorting is very odd - why not do it in the 70s and 80s, not much has changed?
The only reason that an Ontario based 'Event Driven' hedge fund would choose now to start shorting is if a piece of information has just become available.
Perhaps from the Ontario based Court which is hearing the multi-billion dollar case?
Absolutely stinks and I hope it's investigated.
LMAO touché
Who knows ktp I'm certainly not in them circle's, just a small investor trying to make some dough.
The idea of multiple country's coming together over a new variant and holding on releasing the news all so the stock markets crash I think is a bit far fetched , this is obviously my opinion , not saying its fact , already economy's around the world are struggling in areas , buissness closing down and to kick them in the Gonads so a few rich can become richer I'm personally not so sure.
Who knows wikileaks part 4 in 100 years time might say different , and after our annual injection of boosters and a new drug for ever lasting life you can come on here and tell me " see bonkers I told you so " while we wait for the s.p to hit 70p and some idiot shouting will be 120 by March 2223
Bonkers - what’s the saying about a lie being halfway around the world before the truth has put its trousers on…..lol gotta laugh
World wide conspiracy too effect already heavily damaged markets.
Maybe just maybe a new variant formed , it spread as it naturally would , by the time it was noticed it had spread to different country's, country's then react to the new variant on news of multiple mutations , variant now seems like its not as bad as first feared , but it was all done for the love of money.
What people do for the green stuff right
One thing we can be sure of LPD is that when the tide turn and it will there are currently 120m of our shares held short. When they are forced to close them it will be a rapid rapid rise back to a fair value….was it Wellington that surmised that would be at least £1.50 per share. I, you and I’m sure every other LTH can’t wait for that day.
GLA
There might be dark forces at work KTP, and either they may be spending millions on trying to suppress the share price for existing holders or it might simply be the market makers taking the price down ahead of an anticipated good event, here - Spiderman NWH.
But in many respects you don't need to have thousands, hundreds of thousands or millions to keep throwing at maintaining the price.
*Firstly when the share price gets too low, not just PI's but Institutions buy in. Volume today indicates as such.
* Large events such as Spiderman No Way Home which have a disproportionately large effect on improving revenues and profitability attract in many more investors. Watch the number of new faces appearing.
* Thirdly and this is probably the most important one because you don't need £1K, £10k, £100k, £1M to actually get involved in reversing things. All you really need is £10, £20, £30, £40, £50, £75, or say £100 and what you do is when these big movies are coming up and advance releasing tickets, you book them, for yourself, your partners, the family and add your support to the cumulative figures. It should create its own headlines and brings in more attendees (and investors). The more that do it the merrier. So you get your tickets and a good choice of what normally becomes very scarce seating at key times but it also does so in a cumulative way that supports the film industry but it also contributes financially to the company you are invested in. The Dark forces you make mention of then have a dilemma whereby do they try and support their position further with throwing more cash at it (against a rising tide of appetite) or do they cease or maybe even go long. In that way all do your bit and if you can convince a few more to go then even better.
Just imho and I'm in for 4 Imax tickets (and working on a few more)
The Omicron episode looks to be abating with most losses being recovered (save for travel, for now) I can’t help thinking this isn’t and was never about a dangerous new variant, more a move to trigger a desired reaction, can’t put my finger on the motivations…….oh hang in a minute - MONEY, specifically other peoples money….Step 1. Find a willing DR to break the new variant (which isn’t as new as we were lead to believe, bearing in mind it’s everywhere) have them and an associate “professional” pump up the doom hype. Step 2. Make deals with a selected few investors and prime them. Step 3. Trigger a flash crash by releasing all the amplified doom at once. Step 4. Cash in, with the money scared out of the PI’ hands. Step 5. Have your DR & doom hype professionals to walk back their comments day by day, so as to obscure the obvious.
This is criminal in my opinion, part of what I’ve written above you can see for yourself, big short taken out on the 25th….news drops after trading closed on the 25th…..big profits cha ching and I’d bet money the initial dip to 0.47 was that same short closing. Friday 26th the DR who broke this variant started to walk back her comments on the likely severity of this variant.
If a working class carpenter can see this for what it is then why isn’t anyone being arrested, this can’t be legal.
Anyway thought I’d share a theory, just for fun.