London South East prides itself on its community spirit, and in order to keep the chat section problem free, we ask all members to follow these simple rules. In these rules, we refer to ourselves as "we", "us", "our". The user of the website is referred to as "you" and "your".
By posting on our share chat boards you are agreeing to the following:
The IP address of all posts is recorded to aid in enforcing these conditions. As a user you agree to any information you have entered being stored in a database. You agree that we have the right to remove, edit, move or close any topic or board at any time should we see fit. You agree that we have the right to remove any post without notice. You agree that we have the right to suspend your account without notice.
Please note some users may not behave properly and may post content that is misleading, untrue or offensive.
It is not possible for us to fully monitor all content all of the time but where we have actually received notice of any content that is potentially misleading, untrue, offensive, unlawful, infringes third party rights or is potentially in breach of these terms and conditions, then we will review such content, decide whether to remove it from this website and act accordingly.
Premium Members are members that have a premium subscription with London South East. You can subscribe here.
London South East does not endorse such members, and posts should not be construed as advice and represent the opinions of the authors, not those of London South East Ltd, or its affiliates.
After I fainted for a few minutes my wife asked what happened to you I told here I was thinking about if you have about 15m ounce in hand within 3 sq; imagine what if you have 160sq. I said we are rich we are rish that is why I fainted. LOL
That is a joke. but GLTA,
Dan
Thanks mrtibbles for all the hard work for getting all the news. But I am wondering where is Al-Fahkarany now? And what will happen to him if he went back to Egypt? And if Centamin has all this issues why EDV wants to pay close $1.6B! only for 3 km?
We really need a GL hear.
Centamin original Sukari Licence Agreement
Siko
http://gate.ahram.org.eg/Media/News/2017/2/26/2017-636237441861789391-178.pdf
As Centamin has already recovered the full capital expenditure, EMRA owns NOW, not at the end of the licence, the title to all fixed and movable assets.
According to the original Concession Agreement, page 53 in the above link in English:
EGSMA "EMRA" shall become the owner of all assets in connection with the operations carried out by Pharaoh "Centamin" or operating company in accordance with the following:
1- Land shall be the property of EGSMA as soon as it's purchased.
2-Title to fixed and movable assets shall be transferred from Pharaoh to EGSMA gradually as their costs are recovered by Pharaoh in accordance with the provisions of Article VII. It's understood that title to all such acquired assets through Exploitation Expenditures incurred prior to the commencement of commercial production will be transferred when the full cost of all such assets has been recovered under article VII. Likewise, title to fixed and movable assets representing capital additions acquired through Exploitation Expenditures incurred after the announcement of commercial production will be transferred when the full cost of all such assets has been fully recovered.
Opinion on below at the time from from our fellow member Sinnerthesaint
This is potentially very interesting. I remember enquiring what it would mean if AlFakharany were convicted in his earlier (political) case. One of the answers someone then gave me was that it wouldn't affect the CEY/EMRA case because it was unrelated and didn't have something to question his integrity (as an example he wasn't getting convicted for fraud). Now this (with evidence) is exactly THAT. His integrity is on the line... and (morally but efficient in court cases) him accusing someone else of the same (before he has spent his own sentence - i.e. reformed). Morally (perhaps less efficient in court but much more efficient politically) would be hypocrisy.
It potentially affects the CEY court-case in many ways.
1. The possible outcome itself.
2. The continuation of the appeal
3. The possibility of AlFakharany dropping the case
4. The Interior ministry looking into injunctions
5. The length of time for the case to go on
6. The little 'public' support he enjoyed will probably vanish quickly
Important past updates from Siko!
http://www.elfagr.org/1857087
http://www.el-balad.com/1694329?bar=1
http://www.masress.com/youm7/2337002
http://www.marsadmasry.com/news/28790
Public Funds Investigators at the Interior Ministry confirmed that they have arrested Hamdy Alfakharany tonight and they have started questioning him.
He is accused of requesting 5 million Egyptian pounds as a bribery to withdraw a court case he had filed earlier to recover the land of the Nile Cotton company.
The interior ministry technical department managed to record - audio and video - Alfakharany while requesting the bribery. All telephone calls between Alfakharany and the relevant parties were recorded.
Alfakharany was arrested while getting paid the first instalment of the bribery (1,25 millions).
Investigations also showed that Alfakharany committed fraud with the papers of Madinaty case.
(
From Centamin Sept 2015
One of the analysts in London has picked up on the development in Cairo – GMP Securities issued the following this morning:
Centamin – CEY LN – thorn removed with arrest of main opponent to Sukari
• As operations continue their smooth progress and the company moves towards 500k oz for 2015, enabling the company to recently raise its dividend to a healthy ~3.7%, the story looks in good health.
• But one issue which has continued to hold back the company over recent years has been the blight of the court cases it has faced in Egypt, spear-headed by one particular individual (Hamdy Fakharany). So it is especially comforting to see management’s long-stated view (that this individual was only out for personal gain and they would not bow to his demands) corroborated by the fact that he has been arrested after being caught attempting to bribe a company facing a similar legal situation to CEY.
• He had sought payment from CEY in order for their court troubles to “disappear” which the company had consistently ignored – and that tactic looks like it will now pay off. Clearly it won’t be overnight progress, but as we have long-stated, the court cases facing the company have not been brought by the State, but rather an individual with an agenda. Now that this individual is likely removed, the company is in a solid position to continue unimpeded its strong operational progress.
• Remains my top pick of the growing, established lower cost producers and with a healthy dividend yield on top, it screens extremely well versus all peers.
Please feel free to post it as you see fit.
Court Case lost documents Siko posted 20. 11 .2013
I have just had a long discussion with Mr-Egypt's lawyer who attended the cc today and I asked him many questions.
These are the details of today's session which lasted for 45 minutes:
-This new court is formed of 8 judges, 3 from the old court -which ruled on 20th March to postpone the original ruling- and 5 new judges including the main judge, who seemed to be a very fair man.
-The first thing the judge did was to ask Alfakrany why he was suing everyone?! Also the judge told Alfakrany not to talk after realizing that he was not a lawyer, and especially after Alfakrany did not stand up as the judges entered the room and the judge ordered him to stand up.
-The judge asked Alfakrany's lawyer to explain the whole case as it was new to him. The lawyer explained all about the agreement and its conditions, then the judge asked what the problem was, Alfakrany's lawyer said that according to the agreement if CEY worked outside the agreed area or submitted any forged documents then the government could cancel the agreement, the judge asked (what did they do wrong and what forged documents did they submit?) , the lawyer said that their entitlement was for 3 sq km only, but they worked outside that area, and that was a clear breach of the agreement, and later they got the minister to sign a contract for that area!
-Then the ministry of petroleum's lawyer intervened and said that the whole case was a total waste of everybody's time, including the court, and said that the administrative court was not even entitled to consider the case at the first place because the agreement was a law approved by the parliament, and confirmed to the judge that all the correct legal documents were submitted in the file, including the agreement and the contract. The judge tried to find the contract in the file, but it was too big and could not find it straight away, so the lawyer told him that he will submit another certified copy on behalf of the ministry of petroleum, as the one in the file was submitted by CEY & EMRA. (This is the first time the ministry of petroleum gets involved).
-Alfakrany then tried to talk about the unfair conditions, wasting public natural resources and stealing the gold, the judge told him (This is an administrative court which only considers whether the contract is legal or not, and will not consider anything else. This is a documents only court and lawyers sometimes do not even get the chance to talk because the court only considers documents).
Hi Siko,
Thank you for the info, I seem to recall that Centamin were not informed of the initial hearing of -Alfakrany's case so of course they hadn't entered the 160km agreement papers
Thank you for taking the trouble, Siko ...your summary of the state of play re court proceedings is greatly appreciated.
Thanks Siko
Its hard to imagine that it is in Egypts best interest to not uphold the law of contract and to behave in a lawful fashion that engenders sustainable confidence by the investment community.
The documentation that Centamin provide can be reviewed at
http://www.centamin.com.au/centamin/investors/courtcaseqanda
The protagonist appears as a politician, with what appears to be purely a self based political agenda, and hence his case seems to be more motivated by appeal to the populous, than any sound legal argument. The populous would be more appreciative of getting employment and income into the country than some nebulous self serving political rhetoric.
Like so many things motivated by self serving politcal agendas, unworthy at best. Perhaps the Egyptian law is treating the case on the merit it deserves, that is to ignore it as frivelous, and unworthy of investment of the judiciaries time.
I see it as frivelous, poorly founded, and of highly suspect motivation.
But it would be better for the judiciary to resolve the case, so all apsects of a constructuve Egyptian society can move onwards and upwards.
Best
the Gnome
I know it's been a long time since our last court case update and it seems like a lot of people forgot where we are... I also had to dig in all my court case papers to get the dates and the facts correct..
The initial ruling on 31st October 2012 by the Administrative Court declined Al-Fakharany's request to cancel the agreement as it's a law, but because the signed exploitation contract for the 160sq km area was not submitted, the court decided to only approve the 3sq km area that was initially allocated to Centamin and the court made it clear that the ruling was due to the absence of the approval (signed contract).
In the appeal, Centamin submitted the signed contract (I posted a link for the signed contract here before).
On 20th March 2013, the Supreme Administrative Court (SAC) made a ruling suspending enforcement of the judgement issued by the Administrative Court on 30 October 2012 until a final decision on the merits of the appeal is given. This judgement supersedes the notice of "objection to enforcement" which has been in place since 31 October 2012 and effectively allows normal operations at Sukari to continue throughout the appeal process. (Centamin released an RNS that day confirming that).
I hope that explains clearly where we are from the 160sq km area..