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I haven't heard the presentation today, but from the comments on this board, I can't see that there was much point for the presentation?
I haven't seen such low sentiment on this board, it is worrying to read. I am holding on and hope things will get better by the year end.
Is Centamin in the words of Gordon Gekko just another dog with different fleas? Following a nose-dive last Friday, the share price moved in a tight inter-daily range with the overall direction downwards. Is this the beginnings of something big on the horizon, or a reflection of apathy and investors throwing in the towel? Should we jump ship?
People who get paid at Centamin include the Board, the Egyptian government, and institutional shareholders. The rest of us get thrown to the lions. Feeding arrangements better improve real quick or I'm out. I'll risk my neck in a long boat where I have some chance of reaching shore. The other alternative, if the situation does not improve, is that the ship founders on rocks and is lost at the bottom, together with retail Centamin shareholders.
Thanks Marmot
So, he didn't answer the question as to how many shares purchased. - Instead he highlighted how many owned, which of course will include bonus shares not purchased.
That answer is too smart by half and shows disdain for the questioner IMO.
An interesting question about Directors shares in the webcast.
An investor asked : How many shares have the Board purchased ?
Martin Horgan replied "the Board own about 1.5m shares between them".
By my estimate the current Board (of 9 directors) have bought a total of 811,405 shares. The only way you can get to 1.5m "owned" is to conflate Directors shares purchased with those share options of Mr Gerrard that have vested. This important point was not clarified.
Sure youu have to spend money to make money..
Correction: - Market-red-flag waiving
Pardey had a good go at torpedoing the SP, but the announcement by Horgan that Centamin's current difficulties were going to take 3 years to fix and that it would cost all of the funds held on account was an absolute killer. - Morever, there will have to be fund-raising going forward in order to be able to operate. - What a complete reversal of fortunes from when Centamin was unhedged with no debt and cash-reserves in hand. - I mean, this is market-ed-flag waiving with 'Gusto'. - VonMoltke asks 'what is going on' - a good question. - It seems to me that what is going on is an extension of Pardey's objectives with bells on! The real question is why?
Sotolo they have made us miserable by failing to carry out the duties with due diligence over the past half a decade which bought about the need for such drastic actions to save the company.
That said they are making the share holders feel the pain and pay the price for their mismanagement whilst their remuneration packages (Options) seem to be ring fenced from the effects of failing to do their jobs properly.
Surely if ordinary share holders are to take a cut in dividend then the BOD &NED's should lead by example by forgoing any bonuses and share options whilst also making some significant share purchases themselves and as already suggested accepting that any future option's entitlement should be directly related to actual performance and the number of shares purchased by each director.
Quite so Marmot,
Couldn't agree more with all you say!
In fact those very points are covered along with others in my letter to the BOD & NED's in Jersey via the proper channels, I am led to believe that a number of other share holders have also written along similar lines.
Re -Share options should be directly proportional to the number of shares they have bought on the open market.
Absolutely agree , this is just whats needed to wake up our Jersey "Snoozing " BOD!
I haven't lost faith in the in what should by now be a great company, had it been run properly, unfortunately that has'nt been the case in many respects , Marmot has summed up what I and many other long term holders want to see take place .
Selling out lets those who are responsible for our present predicament win.
Well Robbie I don’t share vonMoltke’s facts, on which his views are based. Centamin didn’t hit a multi year low after the results, it was almost 10% lower just three months ago. Nor is it some weird shenanigans by management to reduce the price. Quite simply the management made entirely clear that there would be some huge expenditure for a couple of years after the wall collapse along with lower production. It has been entirely as they said, but some uninformed investor were surprised at the reduced profits, and the highly sensible reduced dividend (stupid paying a dividend greater than profit and also now will have some for investment). Imho many here who have been praising the management, and now decry it, have it back to front. They have made us miserable getting the bad news out so it will be good from here imho
Robbie11 -- These were some general thoughts which crossed my mind. But thank you nonetheless.
vonMoltke
Many thanks for setting out in some detail concerns which I very much share.
To day trade Centamin I need a bottom and a top with a reasonable gap in-between. I'l trade knowing I will never be able to predict either the top or bottom and bank the profits. If I've misjudged it and i can't extricate myself by the end of the day i prefer to hold and try for the first opportunity next day. Sometimes I may have to have an open position for several days which makes me nervous.
Following the disastrous profits report for 2021 compared to 2020 (down a third if I can remember), the share price nose-dived about a week ago to multi-year lows. It tried to stage a recovery, by got hammered further, possibly by van Eck, the biggest institutional shareholders. They seemed to keep it in a narrow price band which made day trading very difficult unless you were super nimble.
It makes me wonder what is going on. I think in terms of fear and greed rather than who's who on the Board. Why do they want the Centamin share price so low.? Is it to facilitate a takeover bid? Is it to shake out shareholders who prefer a less problematic company full of excuses? Then van Eck and others can acquire shares at bargain basement prices. I must confess, my patience is wearing thin. Something is going on and you need to think outside the box to obtain your answer.
To be fair to Centamin there is that shifting ore/tailings wall which should soon be secured. And then there is the possibility of a bonanza gold find during exploration. However, you can become a fossil real quickly being a trader, and I for one won't be hanging on for much longer unless something changes to the upside. Then, of course, there is always the spot price of gold which may improve considerably in these uncertain times.
I do agree though with commentators far and wide who question why the Board have not scooped up Centamin shares. it begs the question, what do they know what we don't? Share options should be directly proportional to the number of shares they have bought on the open market. That would be a wake up call for the Board don't you think?
I've said enough. I am no expert by a long shot. I'm just trying to get by to pay my electricity bill and half-fill my car with petrol. I'm trying to survive like the rest of us in a world in a spin.
Good luck with your trading.
I know Tibbs and all .........patience in parts in wearing thin
I am counting on at least gold plated flip flops for my future retirement..
To day trade Centamin I need a bottom and a top with a reasonable gap in-between. I'l trade knowing I will never be able to predict either the top or bottom and bank the profits. If I've misjudged it and i can't extricate myself by the end of the day i prefer to hold and try for the first opportunity next day. Sometimes I may have to have an open position for several days which makes me nervous.
Following the disastrous profits report for 2021 compared to 2020 (down a third if I can remember), the share price nose-dived about a week ago to multi-year lows. It tried to stage a recovery, by got hammered further, possibly by van Eck, the biggest institutional shareholders. They seemed to keep it in a narrow price band which made day trading very difficult unless you were super nimble.
It makes me wonder what is going on. I think in terms of fear and greed rather than who's who on the Board. Why do they want the Centamin share price so low.? Is it to facilitate a takeover bid? Is it to shake out shareholders who prefer a less problematic company full of excuses? Then van Eck and others can acquire shares at bargain basement prices. I must confess, my patience is wearing thin. Something is going on and you need to think outside the box to obtain your answer.
To be fair to Centamin there is that shifting ore/tailings wall which should soon be secured. And then there is the possibility of a bonanza gold find during exploration. However, you can become a fossil real quickly being a trader, and I for one won't be hanging on for much longer unless something changes to the upside. Then, of course, there is always the spot price of gold which may improve considerably in these uncertain times.
I do agree though with commentators far and wide who question why the Board have not scooped up Centamin shares. it begs the question, what do they know what we don't? Share options should be directly proportional to the number of shares they have bought on the open market. That would be a wake up call for the Board don't you think?
I've said enough. I am no expert by a long shot. I'm just trying to get by to pay my electricity bill and half-fill my car with petrol. I'm trying to survive like the rest of us in a world in a spin.
Good luck with your trading.
Can see this creeping up now....the only way is UP!
The sp does trickle down but will also run up sharply eventually. Would be hard to watch if you were out when it did though?
I hope that somebody at Centamin does read this board and that Martin Horgan does dig into his pockets and purchase some shares soon. He's not short of a bob or two so maybe a buy 200,000 shares followed by a few more in the next month or so of 100,000 a time?
In my view much of corporate entitlement is put in place so that over time it is accepted as the norm. A new CEO has the opportunity to not only reset production but also the very nature of the ethos of the business. A key indicator is how the new CEO views the share and the shareholders. Does he demonstrate alignment with shareholders as a significant investor or by embedding a corporate entitlement culture ?
Pardey did not buy any shares instead he acumulated 2.3 million share options. His CFO Gerrard, still in post, has only bought 30,000 shares yet has acquired 1.38m share options including those passed to a family trust. In his first 11 months in charge Horgan received total share options of 1.24m shares. To date he has bought a total of 41,405 shares.
Ideally I want Horgan to show me that he is indeed an entrepreneur who leads by example and aligns himself with all shareholders. That is what he did with Toro.
In 2019 Horgan sold Toro for $305m company he started from scratch and took from exploration to production and sale. I am glad that he and his backers did very well out of it. A risk taking entrepreneur is exactly what Centamin needs as its CEO.
Previous CEO's Harry Michael and Josef El Raghy bought 1m shares when they stepped up. I hoped that Pardey was the anomaly CEO who arranged his entitlements while presiding over declining sales, profits and yield.
I want to see Horgan lead. A good sign of that would be a significant share purchase by him and Gerrard, and confirmation of the end of the entitlement culture of share options of reward with no risk. Gold companied that prioritise entitlement value extraction for executives like Goldcorp and Detour end up as takeover losers.
I want Horgan to show us he will make Centamin a winner by adding value and ending the entitlement with no risk culture.
Gad to see you back mrtibbles
Genuine Question Mr Tibbs.. why don't you just sell out if you have lost faith ?
Thank you Mike,
I am generally a tolerant person who accepts that management can't make the right decision every time and that especially in mining unexpected things can happen, however that said here is no excuse for senior directors to fail to execute their responsibilities with due diligence and then try to claim they were unaware!
I'm afraid I feel that we shareholders have been taken for granted for far too long being fed generous amounts of baloney rather then honest facts and thrown the scraps whilst the BOD & NED's are ring fenced from the effects of their complacency and lets be honest mismanagement on an epic scale!
You are right Centamin has become a dog of of share mainly due to poor Jersey management and its Tier 1 Reserve being run an over promoted geologist and a family member manager and former Egyptian police captain who was more interested in real estate then running Sukari!
Who are they trying to kid , Investment opportunity indeed that has halved in value and now reduced its dividend by 50 %!
I do hope the the Centamin Investor Relations Team relay my comments to the BOD & NED's
I dont disagree with many comments made by the many and I guess time will tell...
I was probably most taken back Tibbs comments and what appears is more a change of sentiment with CEY and is completely understandable. I have taken a certain amount of hope over the years and informative information for future progress which stalled and went back word. When you look at the recent history it has certainly been a dogs dinner.
Of course Mr. Horgan should put some skin in the game and he should be challenged on that. However if he gets on and delivers that is also fine but.... . The road from here on is largely Horgan's responsibility and hopefully we can see real progress 2022/23
Trying to stay positive
Thank you Razor's,
Please bear with my less frequent participation in the discussion for the time being.