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TS - "I did see a video yesterday of a cruise ship in which they have built Covid isolation rooms within the medical centre on board. A good move if the air circulation is isolated from the rest of the ship."
Far be it from me to spot the flaw in this but . . .
It will on average be 5 days before any passenger with COVID presents with symptoms in which case they will have been spreading their germs throughout the ship for 5 days through the air con system and on numerous surfaces. So having isolated quarters in the med bay is locking the stable door after the horse has bolted TBH. Still worth having but in no way is it going to stop the spread which will have happened well before the passenger ever gets to the medical centre.
The only way to stop spread is to conduct daily testing of all passengers which will require lots of the new test kits which work like pregnancy tests and take about 15 mins to produce results and don't require any labs. But the logistics of constantly testing large numbers of people are unwieldy and would take a long time and many staff to administer. You can't trust passengers to test themselves and give truthful answers either so it would be a daily misery of 1000s queuing up to be tested and sitting around.
If there are cases of COVID on-board (and there will be) then they will spread around by the time anyone becomes aware of them.
So you come back, as always, to the fundamental issue. How will the cruise line be required to operate as soon as cases are confirmed? Answer remains Diamond Princess scenario imo until and unless they confirm otherwise. At the very least it becomes a numbers game. Say up to 5 cases on-board in the medical isolation area ok, beyond 5, lock the ship down etc.
Either way it's still game over for cruising imo. The virus has to be downgraded to where it should be, but that requires lots of careful political climb downs, much like the CDC/WHO climb down on the lies they told about masks.
De-Rampers are at it again, of course in my opinion CCL are holding and will continue to work there way through this difficult time. Its obvious a few on here cant handle the heathy comparisons others wish to offer.
DYOR research and good luck definitely worth a punt at these levels.
I did see a video yesterday of a cruise ship in which they have built Covid isolation rooms within the medical centre on board.
A good move if the air circulation is isolated from the rest of the ship.
That will help stop the spread.
Perhaps the 'flu' issue was a driving factor n all the cruise lines postponing sailings until next spring when flu season is over - would be a sensible reason for that decision.
I agree TalkingSense but it's typical of rampers. Note once again and as I said earlier they have absolutely no response to the core problem cruisers face, the Diamond Princess scenario so they once again just ignore it and do their best to disparage the poster. Anyone who follows such rampers simply deserves to lose their money.
At the moment the actions of cruise line seem to be concerned purely with trying to MINIMISE the risk of getting cases of COVID on-board. Distancing, masks, gel, hygiene etc etc.
What has NOT changed is what they will do when THERE ARE cases of COVID on-board. As far as anyone knows it will still be a case of locking everyone up. Until they state otherwise that's what cruisers have to assume.
So the stalemate continues. Cruisers won't cruise for the most part. They will keep booking holidays in advance in case this show-stopping issue does get solved in the future, but if it doesn't those future bookings are utterly worthless as they are in reality just cancellations waiting to happen. imo.
Calling people loonies would be abuse.
Talking Sense - Thank you for the message I cant see any abuse just factual comments I think your over reacting again!!
If your censoring healthy challenges let me know?
Alyhels, No need for the name calling.
Just because everyone does not share your point of view does not mean you have to get abusive.
I respect your point of view so please keep it civil.
To my point:
Is it not true that MSC do not let their passengers ashore unless they are in organised excursions. Therefore it would not be unreasonable to assume CCL would be bound by the same rules.
Well said thrifty agree 100% a new normal is dawning on us and I for one have done 20+ cruises and yes the strict regime onboard prior to covid and the added measure now we have covid will get these giants sailing again. Well done CCL again for transparency.
In the latest RNS - Costa (the Italian brand) has just committed to sailing 10 ships in 2021. That is a big positive step in the right direction. The first sailings since startup must be going well for this commitment to be made. If testing is mandatory and regular and all health and safety protocols are followed then there should not be any issues. Health and safety is taken very seriously on the ships - even before Covid, anyone who has been on the ships will recall hand sanitiser, washing hands - attendants forcing this upon you etc. RCL and NCL are also up - if/when a vaccine is announced that will be the icing on the cake.
Scenario D = The two loonies have called it wrong again is that a bounce I see ! I wonder what time last night Magic man started typing that spiel ! Must be Knackered today !
Mr Magic, Your scenario is floored as pottering around the port yourself may not be allowed.
You forgot scenario C:
It's Oct-Feb, winter flu season. Ship sets sail with 1500 pax on board
Day 2 - 5 people exhibit symptoms including fever, headache, fatigue, cough and sore throat. All 5 are duly isolated "just in case" and await testing. They miss the excursion they had booked that set off at 9am and are refused permission to go ashore for 2 hours whilst tests are done. They are eventually cleared but now will have to just potter around the port themselves.
Day 4 - 15 more people have shown similar symptoms and so are all isolated in their cabins. Could be COVID, could just be cold or Flu. No-one knows until tests completed. More disruptions.
Day 8 - Over 40 people are now coughing and showing similar symptoms. All have to be quarantined to cabin and await testing. On approach to the current port the Captain is duly bound to inform port authority of the number of sick people on-board. The port refuses entry to the ship until all sick passengers have been fully tested and cleared. (It only took ONE such passenger earlier this year to see a ship refused entry in Italy). 1500 passengers are now all irritated and waiting to go ashore. Lots of excursions have now gone awry, timescales shot etc. Hours pass whilst the sick are tested and whilst the port authorities and perhaps local doctors come on board to confirm.
You can progress the scenario forward yourselves. Cases of Flu or equivalent will be widely prevalent and will spread around the ship like wild fire as they always do. The cruise will be beset with constant interruptions, quarantines, delays and so on. All because the symptoms of cold and Flu are similar to COVID.
What that then leads to is an ethos of "keeping schtuum". Those with symptoms will realise that it's best to just keep them to yourself as much as possible. To NOT report to medical bay, not worry about fever and coughs and to try your best to supress it all so no-one notices. Maybe forego dinner in the restaurant and pop up to the buffet instead. Stay on your balcony by day rather than wander around the ship etc.
What then happens is one or more of those such people actually DO have COVID but think it's just Flu or cold and by not reporting their symptoms they have now spread COVID around the ship ensuring that more and more cases will appear over the coming days. Within no time you're quickly into your Scenario B again, aka Diamond Princess Death Ship. Everyone locked up in cabins, holidays ruined, dumped off in port waiting to be flown home etc.
In the end nothing is going to change until and unless the world health authorities downgrade the virus to little more than Flu and/or do NOT require cruise lines to quarantine all passengers when there are cases on-board. We seem to be a long way from that point
"Bernie, I don't think sneezing is a symptom of Covid. Lol."
Try telling that to super scared 80 year old. Sneezing is the new social faux pas.
Bernie, I don't think sneezing is a symptom of Covid. Lol.
There are really some weird people on here.
Scenario A ; 3 days into cruise, a passenger exhibits COVID like symptoms (coughs or sneezes basically) and is put into isolation awaiting test result. Everyone is freaked out, but he comes back negative and we wait for the next sneezer.
Scenario B; 3 days into cruise, a passenger exhibits COVID like symptoms (coughs or sneezes basically) and is put into isolation awaiting test result. Everyone is freaked out, and even more so when he comes back positive. Everyone is put into isolation in their cabins and COVID quickly spreads throughout the ship via food deliveries, etc. Ship refused entry to any port so has to stand off until passengers can be repatriated. An old boy dies. All over the news. Suddenly people not quite so keen to go cruising....
Also, not sure about other ports, but no way is a cruise ship being allowed into Palma de Mallorca any time soon.
Excellent stuff. Confirming my point precisely . .
"The rampers here have no answer to that problem either and just ignore it"
Always best to disparage a person when you have no factual argument to come back with. Ramp on old son.
This will be in the £7 levels by October imo
Me thinks someone is getting Grinchy !!! your constant De-Ramping yes we have seen you on other boards doing the same today ! Keyboard warrior eh ! the share is doing remarkably well given the current climate so pipe down back in your box.
When you have had a chance to educate yourself we would welcome factual inputs it would seem your minimal investment portfolio is getting you all worked up!
Fascinating to watch the single ramper here flogging the dead horse. Puts me in mind of Basil Fawlty thrashing his car. "You will set sail, you will set sail!!".
Cruising is going precisely nowhere and the tanking of the SP shows it. The city boy sharks will keep taking 10% scrapes for as long as the sun shines whilst spouting "jam tomorrow" nonsense about vaccines and the like. Vaccines aren't going to change the situation because vaccinated or not they will still lock everyone up if there are cases of COVID on-board and until they find a way around that and formally state the alternative, nothing is going to change. Passengers largely don't care about the vaccines. They would, TODAY, get on board a ship if they were allowed and take the risk of catching COVID in their stride but the only thing that would stop them is the firm knowledge that when the first case of COVID appears on the ship the cruise line will quarantine everyone to their cabins ala Diamond Princess. The cruise lines have no answer to this problem yet AFAIK. The rampers here have no answer to that problem either and just ignore it hoping to sway the unwary with tales of imminent vaccines instead.
We are heading into more lockdowns imo. Local Costco stores were heaving yesterday with people once again rushing to buy toilet paper and bottled water and other provisions to get ahead of the stampede. Cars queuing out of the car park to get in. Online supermarket delivery systems were chock a block. The COVID farce is going to continue and there's little the cruise lines can do about it imo. SP only going South imo.
DYOR
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/travel/cruises/news/demand-for-cruise-holidays-says-survey/
Hopefully the penny has dropped !! Holding very well all things considered, Cruise companies going the extra mile with emergency medical evacuation insurance and return home insurance for all passengers next year, this looks very well indeed the new normal.
berni, what you fail to take on board is that the nature of near /mid term cruises has changed to a cruise only basis restricted to the Nationality of the departure and return port with more localised stops. Hence, the link has been broken with Airlines and the cruise itself will form an attractive alternative to a staycation
I've said it before, but it bears repeating; airlines are like the canary in the coal mine for cruise companies.
There is no chance of Carnival recovering until airline stocks do.
Ryanair just said that they have just 10% bookings for Nov and Dec. Rest assured none of those flying will be going to get on a cruise.
Only when people are allowed to / feel confident enough to fly again, can we even start to think about cruises happening.
But cruises are unique environments where the passengers could be trapped on board for weeks, offshore, refused entry to any port.
https://apple.news/AOvjq_msnMWGrhB3hg1Je5Q
This could have a big impact !!
“Pays ya money takes ya chance scenario”
Very promising indeed https://www.bristol.ac.uk/news/2020/september/spike-protein.html
covid spike protein bristol university
Worth a read