Gordon Stein, CFO of CleanTech Lithium, explains why CTL acquired the 23 Laguna Verde licenses. Watch the video here.
London South East prides itself on its community spirit, and in order to keep the chat section problem free, we ask all members to follow these simple rules. In these rules, we refer to ourselves as "we", "us", "our". The user of the website is referred to as "you" and "your".
By posting on our share chat boards you are agreeing to the following:
The IP address of all posts is recorded to aid in enforcing these conditions. As a user you agree to any information you have entered being stored in a database. You agree that we have the right to remove, edit, move or close any topic or board at any time should we see fit. You agree that we have the right to remove any post without notice. You agree that we have the right to suspend your account without notice.
Please note some users may not behave properly and may post content that is misleading, untrue or offensive.
It is not possible for us to fully monitor all content all of the time but where we have actually received notice of any content that is potentially misleading, untrue, offensive, unlawful, infringes third party rights or is potentially in breach of these terms and conditions, then we will review such content, decide whether to remove it from this website and act accordingly.
Premium Members are members that have a premium subscription with London South East. You can subscribe here.
London South East does not endorse such members, and posts should not be construed as advice and represent the opinions of the authors, not those of London South East Ltd, or its affiliates.
Issue is, they're highest price paid over 12 months is 30p (correct me if wrong). And now if they offer 30p, as they hold 75% (or near enough) they could accept on behalf of everyone? Am i wrong?
Not read the full take over rules
So if Schroders didn't have enough to make that sale, then it must be from David Alliance. In which case, the total family holding will stay the same (if it's an intra family transaction) or go down.
Here's another throw away comment for your pipe to smoke when it happens...
This is going private!!
I WILL say I told you so. Good luck!
Indeed, it does seem intra family then, and to guess, would be so one member has the full holdings?
As of 20/02/23 Shroders only held 46M shares = 9.985% (apols for misquote in last night's post) and I am not aware of any other disclosable holdings, so, if transaction involves the Alliances which side of the fence would they be on!!! 57.9M = 12.57%. One could now conclude something is going on but what!!
57,900,000 trade
So, looks to be off-book and if ALLIANCE were on the other side buying, the family must be near 75% ownership??
Thanks AdamAnt, it is good to see others expressing their thoughts and views in a coherent reasoned way and offering up proper challenges for debate. Yes, I may have been a little strident with some of my earlier comments but that, in part, comes from being irritated by the throwaway lines we frequently see from those who never put any flesh around or in support of their utterings, thinking what they say is gospel albeit unvalidated. And some, like claiming shares not owned by the controlling family would be worthless in the event of going Private, sounded like trying to panic the uninitiated into selling.
Of your posers maybe 1) & 2) are related in that it wouldn't be the first time a CFO has been outed if led up to the disclosure of some negative financial news especially if they were leading or prominent in what proved to be a disappointing outcome, and coming to pay nigh on £50M, certainly in my eyes, comes very much into that category. And the old statement of leaving to "pursue other opportunities/activities" is also often a euphemism for reducing the embarrassment for being booted.
Shroders position is an interesting one, as well, and difficult to fathom given :
- built up original stake July/Sept 20 with probably an average price of 40/45p
- prior to OO held 12.03%
- post OO, as per 2021 AA, held 12.35% implying took up all of entitlement, and a little more, @ 57p
- putting all together ave price of accumulated holding, at a rough guess, c48p
so now selling out at lower than perceived cost opens a few questions but portfolio management is often based on a mix of reasons.
That leads to 3), one plausible idea being the Alliance family have taken advantage of mopping up some unexpectedly available shares from a friendly source because consider cheap against a reasonably strong Balance Sheet even post the Allianz settlement though one needs to be mindful that trading is not exactly sparkling at the moment. Whilst one can also see could be considered a "defensive" move, maybe not so, as their biggest defence is that already control c60% so any potential onboarder has little chance except by acquiescence.
As to going Private, yes, with Shroders present 11.38% could get near to the magical 75% mark but somehow don't see that happening, not at the current SP given ones view of S's cost price and perhaps the muted motive for moving to AIM.
So having chewed the fat over many imponderables we must sit tight, like mushrooms in the dark, and wait to see what the future brings - hopefully an ever improving SP and a long lasting entity as a Listed Company. Oh, and no more one line numpty comments!!
Beechhurst, I’ve much appreciated the clear-headedness you bring to the discussion: reading your posts, though, is rather like sucking a whole tube of triple strength mints in one go!
I have noted, as I am sure you will have done, that Schroders’ almost 15% shareholding, if added to the family’s 60%, would bring them to within spitting distance of the required 75%. No need, perhaps, to worry too much about the other turkeys, when the time comes.
I am with you, Brighty and others in assuming that the move to AIM was for IHT purposes and that nothing will happen unless and until there is a material change affecting the situation of the largest shareholder. But I am intrigued by the confluence of recent events: (1) the unexplained resignation of the CFO in November after barely 2 years in the job; (2) the early settlement of the Allianz case for a surprisingly large sum, suggesting “deck-clearing”; and (3) share purchases, almost certainly defensive as you suggest, by the largest shareholder’s ex-wife, with Schroders’ cooperation. All in the space of 9 weeks. Although it would be unseemly to speculate over matters about which we know nothing, I sense that more news may be expected in the coming months. Given that the recovery of BWNG and its share price is still at a very early stage, I’m afraid that taking the company private soon would not fully reward shareholders for the patience and endurance they have shown up to now. All the more reason, therefore, to hope that the status quo continues for as long as possible.
Did Schroeders make a profit on their shares ?
Schroeders still dumping shares, and family still buying....
Probably got an agreement for schroeders to be out before they take it private.
Matching the buys with the sells also keeps price down.
Peakybinder on this Board & currencytrader1 on ADVFN sound like parrots given extremely close proximity of some of postings. And on the latter what a load of aimless/baseless utterings made by all sorts.
If so informed/knowledgeable I would welcome hearing, even with the Alliances current level of shareholdings, how it is thought they are going to take this Private and delist when need a min of 75% to do so. Do you think other shareholders are going to act "like turkeys voting for Christmas" to end up with "worthless" shares, as it is put. In any case, if that scenario arose wouldn't suddenly become absolutely worthless just not as easily tradeable. On the other hand, to acquire the necessary further 15% would cost another £20M+ assuming all could be picked up for no more than current SP, an unlikely prospect if trying to buy c70M shares either in a friendly manner or through the market.
Seems to me that, for many, the words ... brain ....., if have any, and .... putting into gear ....... need coordinating so as not to spew out some of the tosh I have been reading but, there we are, the sad world we live in where words are thrown about unintelligibly albeit trying to suggest to the less informed that are knowledgeable and should be listened to. This gives rise to Bulletin Boards at their worst.
She's still buying...
If they take it private, your shares are worthless...
Fair points both....
Over the last 1/2 months there have been the following players in the market :
FRASER GRP/MIKE ASHLEY - a Disruptor or Spoiler, who knows!! He has in the past bought/sold or traded shares, often it seems at a whim but , currently, speaks for c5%. Intentions anybody's guess.
SCHRODERS - a long standing holder, have just dropped a little over 5.4M shares and now hold a round 50M (11.38%) which strikes me as a nice sticking/hold position. Interestingly, its 2 recent sales coincided with Lady H picking up similar amounts i,e 875K 13/01 & 4.5m 18/01 so looks as if friendly disposals - hardly likely to be giving away stock if something else known to be imminent which would escalate SP.
ALLIANCE FAMILY : at time of OO, late 2020, Concert Party (Lord A [40%] with brother Nigel, other family and close associates) ascribed as holding c52% since when Joshua has acquired c6.5% and latest buying (9.245M shares) of Lady H has picked up another 2%, so looks as if Family now control about 60%
Regarding the latter/the family, if you accept the move to AIM was an IHT ploy, why would you now, having just gone through the 2 Year Qualifying Period (ended 23/12/22) want to go Private or sell for cash/take on the ineligible shares of an acquirer to lose that benefit and then potentially have to pay up to 40% unless have mitigated in other directions. On the face of it these suggestions do not make sense. And if they did want to go down this route and say pay 50p per share (x460M) would need to raise finance of c£100M to buy out minority. With interest rates currently at their height, probably costing £5M+ p.a + repayments that would need to be funded out of a business, with not, in my opinion, the capacity to do so, at the moment, sounds an unlikely prospect, all round.
Looking at events I get the impression Shroders's selling was probably more part of some portfolio management activity and picked up by the Alliance Family as a protective measure from the likes of Ashley's possibly unwanted overtures Furthermore, I am also with Brighty's view are not going to throw the IHT manoeuvre away having just gone through the threshold. Maybe, then, some of those who make unknowledgeable sound bites, as if they can smell what is (actually isn't) coming should do a bit more thinking before go to the keyboard.
Finally, remembering DA is 91 & NA 88 the most likely scenario, to me, is nothing will happen with the family shareholding until one or other of their demise, more likely the former, and thereafter all will depend on whether JA wants to follow in the family footsteps and come to head the organisation. We could be waiting a year or two, yet!!!
The recent Alliance Family share purchases look like a probable blocking tactic by the Alliance / Concert Party to ensure that if there is a takeover approach from an unwanted party (e.g. a Mike Ashley bid) it could be rebuffed forthwith. 56%+ shares are held by the concert party now. This looks a defensive measure rather than a plan to take it private. That's the vibe I've picked up. Good luck, Brighty
The Alliance Family have stated Inheritance tax planning was their main motivator to switch to Aim, so there would be a hefty tax bill currently if they took it private. According to research on here and elsewhere the Alliance average was approx 118p a share in BWNG, following the £59.9million averaging down process at circa 57p. It's obviously slightly lower now due to recent buying by the family but to make the deal cost effective for them to take it private they would surely need to be at breakeven or higher to make it worth their while. Even with the recent averaging down that is a lot higher than the current share price. Good luck, Brighty
I think Schroeders are going to lose their shirt on this one.
They are dumping, and family buying...
When a company delists, investors still own their shares. However, they'll no longer be able to sell them on the exchange. Instead, they'll have to do so over the ounter (OTC)
All we know is the family are not stupid. The laws are complicated when you take a company back private.
Once they own the majority of shares they can offer what they want for the rest...
Novice here but would that mean we get a good/bad offer for our shares?
David Alliance owns just short of 190 million shares around 41% and Josh Alliance owns 37 million shares around 8%. I agree with Peaky looks like they’re buying to take private !
What %do the family now hold?
Schroeders reduced, they don't trust the game...
They are buying to take business back cheap... Holders with higher average will get shafted...
Hoping for a good open tomorrow. Something going on with the volume of buys all of a sudden
She's still at it - I make it 3 separate RNS'd purchases in the past week. With the court case recently settled, the Alliances may consider the situation sufficiently de-risked.