We would love to hear your thoughts about our site and services, please take our survey here.
London South East prides itself on its community spirit, and in order to keep the chat section problem free, we ask all members to follow these simple rules. In these rules, we refer to ourselves as "we", "us", "our". The user of the website is referred to as "you" and "your".
By posting on our share chat boards you are agreeing to the following:
The IP address of all posts is recorded to aid in enforcing these conditions. As a user you agree to any information you have entered being stored in a database. You agree that we have the right to remove, edit, move or close any topic or board at any time should we see fit. You agree that we have the right to remove any post without notice. You agree that we have the right to suspend your account without notice.
Please note some users may not behave properly and may post content that is misleading, untrue or offensive.
It is not possible for us to fully monitor all content all of the time but where we have actually received notice of any content that is potentially misleading, untrue, offensive, unlawful, infringes third party rights or is potentially in breach of these terms and conditions, then we will review such content, decide whether to remove it from this website and act accordingly.
Premium Members are members that have a premium subscription with London South East. You can subscribe here.
London South East does not endorse such members, and posts should not be construed as advice and represent the opinions of the authors, not those of London South East Ltd, or its affiliates.
Nothing's really changed here except the share price is over 7% lower today than it was yesterday and its 20% lower than it was a month ago. I didn't know the Huawei ruling would cost BT £500 million to sort out but I did know it would be expensive. BT are still set to meet full year guidance though.
the price actions said that BT is a no body child. there is no strong parent to defend the price.
the share for dividend is not helping the price as well. any big holder will surely sell after ex-div to lock in the price at that moment and the selling itself will force the price down resulting in more shares allocated. i wonder how BT number of shares has changed over the years. better to stop this share for dividend thing.
better for BT to reserve their cash for 1/3 dividend, 1/3 for share buy back and 1/3 for business growth.
it that way BT price may take a 1 time hit. but after that their share buy back will be able to benefits all shareholders instead of just those who opted for shares.
over a period of time dividend will growth as number of shares reduces.
if one has no parent then one has to self help. unless the big is bullying the small.
I guess buy on Carney's pessimistic growth outlook if you think that Sajid Javid’s forthcoming budget is going to be a stimultion to growth
Over to you Sajid...no pressure ( lol)
I have held BT since the 1984 privatisation and have never felt more despondent about the leadership of the company, why fiddle around with sport sponsorship when cash is needed for the network? Openreach should be spun off . Nobody will take this over with the huge pension liabilities so it has to be self help imv.
"am beginning to wonder at how vulnerable BT Group might be to a takeover bid?"
It's not that easy to take over a company like BT.
Without board approval, they'd first have to start accumulating shares and at a certain level declare an interest. The market, at first sniff, would hike the price right up to a certain level probably decided by the market makers.
Toff, TLW,
I think it is unfortunate that the BOE growth statement has come this morning, because that severe drop in the BOE growth from 1.2% to 0.8% has weighed the SP down further IMO ....given the effect that could well have on revenues and competitive pricing within the sector, which with increasing costs pressure to BT, its business customers, makes life more difficult etc
The SP drop is forward thinking , not just a reflection on the results .....The BOE hasnt painted a rosy picture ahead...IMO
At least those buying shares with their forthcoming 4p interim will get a few more shares for their money..although that is little consolation....
"That’s the market makers pricing the shares to their liking and using their brokerages to mop up the excess."
Totally agree, the big players have the ability to set a stock at any level they wish and BT is being held under sustained downward pressure. I've already stated why the market makers are targeting BT, it'll be interesting to see where we are in a year, or two. My Vodafone and BT dividends are through in the next week, or so and i was going to split them between Lloyd's and BT, but i think i'll plough the lot into BT and then review the price in April, when we can top up our ISA's.
Agreed Toff. Your comments put the current situation in perspective. I was surprised at the over-reaction of the market following the publication of BT Group’s Q3 results. I have seen share prices rise as a consequence of far worse results than these, and, as previously stated, am beginning to wonder at how vulnerable BT Group might be to a takeover bid?
Williams
– Deutsche Bank plunged to a bigger than expected loss of 5.7 billion euros ($6.3 billion) last year, its fifth in a row, as the cost of its latest turnaround attempt hit earnings.
Misconduct scandals, a failed attempt to take on Wall Street heavyweights and, more recently, an aborted merger with Commerzbank mean Germany's biggest bank is still in recovery mode more than a decade on from the global financial crisis.
DB came in well short of market expectations. They lost a staggering €5.7 billion. Their fifth straight year of multi billion losses. their shareprice ROSE 4.5 percent on the news
BT came in short of expectations by 0.7 percent. They made nearly £2 billion profit. Their shareprice FELL 6.5 percent on the news
That should tell you how warped and twisted markets are. And I’d bet you there will be more buys than sells for BT today and more sells than buys for DB.
That’s the market makers pricing the shares to their liking and using their brokerages to mop up the excess.
Toff
Both Deutsche Bank and UBS have been regularly renewing their BT Group valuations and recommendations for investors to sell. It is evident from today’s market reaction to the Q3 report that sentiment is stacked up against BT for the time being.
I accept this latest development, but am surprised to see so many contributors to various BT bulletin boards “gloating” at the news. It reads a bit like the dialogue that occurs on a daily basis between rival fans of two of the UK’s major football teams (who will remain nameless). Fine for football banter, but am I wrong in expecting dialogue of a higher quality from investors. In the case of those who are not invested in BT Group, why waste your valuable time in posting unhelpful comments on this board?
I am surprised that the BT share price was down by 21% from the pre ex-div price this morning. This is the equivalent of a 20% dividend for investors, who were smart enough to sell their BT stock five weeks ago, and buy them back at today’s lows. Sadly, things might get even worse before a recovery follows. The markets and the drum beating brokers are intent on driving BT down at present. Under these circumstances, one might even envisage a takeover bid of the company by one of the telecom giants.
" Deutsche Bank have just cut BT target price from 169 to 157. That should be a screaming buy signal for anyone normal; given their track record. "
Hummm, well this morning a target of 157p isnt that far off the mark....
Avro
The differences are too plentiful to put on a single post, but even you must know ones a bank and the others a telecom?
And the German bank has a huge fine hanging over it from the financial crisis for miss-selling and numerous other questionable practices.
The American authorities will demand payment of up to €10 billion, and that will wipe DB out
And one of these companies makes profits of over £2 billion per annum while the other racks up eye-watering losses year and year. I’ll leave you to guess which
Toff
DB has hot air in abundance, whereas BT own a valuable set of assets in abundance, encompassing a large amount of the UK's critical infrastructure. BT own the ducts, fibres, points of presence and workforce, giving them geographic superiority over other providers. Once FTTP/H is fully established, BT wont have the same regulatory constraints affecting them as they do now, so the other providers had better pull their fingers out. There's no doubt about it, since OFCOM decided to loosen regulation on FTTH products, Openreach are going full steam ahead.
Toff,
Deutsche Bank - currently valued at a paltry £14 billion
Down from £80 billion pre- financial crisis
They really know what they’re doing.
You do have a point about DB.
However I could say exactly the same about BT
British Telecom- currently valued at a paltry £17.5 billion
Down from £100 billion from their peak
They really know what they’re doing.
In summary your right about DT
DB is a busted business model - a burnt out shell of its former self
And that’s reflected in its shareprice.
But exactly the same goes for BT
BT is a busted business model - a burnt out shell of its former self
And that’s reflected in its shareprice.
Can you tell me the difference!!!
I'm not one for conspiracy theories but there is something in these DB forecasts that's just not quite right IMHO, the timing of the forecast is usually when sentiment towards BT is changing or results are due and the full effects of Brexit on markets are in play. Their forecasts up to now have been more accurate than others but my advice would be to do the opposite to Deutsche bank and at least that way you may have some success. Duff Bank are sinking and have been hit before with fines for violating laws which prove to some extent there is corruption within.
C3
Self fulfilling prophecy
Absolutely. A scenario we see all too often in broker/share targets. But why anyone pays any attention to deutsche bank, I’ll never know
DB is a busted business model - a burnt out shell of its former self
And that’s reflected in its shareprice.
Valued at roughly $17 billion dollars
The same amount Apple made in the last three months. (Profits)
My tip is DB won’t survive without state aid. They make loss after loss after loss. And you can only do that for so long
Toff
Seems to me db rating is a self fulfilling prediction.
Posts of DB below caused me to check if they're still listed as in-house brokers for BT as regards analysts forecasts and sure enough they are, which confuses me as I thought the retail arm of DB was closing down? I was certain they were off the list as instead of 21 brokers listed this morning I seer only 19 listed, but they listed as still active.
Anyway here are the buy/sell ratings of all those in-house brokers for BT:
Strong Sell - 0
Sell . . . . . - 5
-----------------
Hold . . . . - 4
-----------------
Buy . . . . . - 6
Strong Buy - 5
So 5 for sell and 11 for buy.
Hmm, I dunno, can you trust 'em? Just look at their SP forecasts :)
Toff - you are welcome to any opinion you fancy, but the truth is, whether you or I like it or not, is that DB have been the closer to the BT share price than any other forecasts I’ve been watching over last 4 years or so.
Deutsche Bank have just cut BT target price from 169 to 157. That should be a screaming buy signal for anyone normal; given their track record.
They must have advised an army of clients to short BT, and yesterday’s small rise set off alarm bells.
DB is a clapped out shell of its former self, it made all the wrong calls leading up to the financial crisis
And it’s made all the wrong calls since
Deutsche Bank - currently valued at a paltry £14 billion
Down from £80 billion pre- financial crisis
They really know what they’re doing.
Toff