London South East prides itself on its community spirit, and in order to keep the chat section problem free, we ask all members to follow these simple rules. In these rules, we refer to ourselves as "we", "us", "our". The user of the website is referred to as "you" and "your".
By posting on our share chat boards you are agreeing to the following:
You will only have one login account. Registering with multiple accounts is not allowed. Any user found to have more than one account on this site will have all, and any future accounts suspended permanently.
Your email and password must only be used by you. If a post is made under your account, it will be considered that it was posted by yourself.
Your account nickname must not be the same, or contain, listed company names or board members' names.
While debating and discussion is fine, we will not tolerate; rudeness, swearing, insulting posts, personal attacks, or posts which are invasive of another's privacy.
You will not;
discuss illegal or criminal activities.
post any confidential or price sensitive information or that is not public knowledge.
post misleading or false statements regarding the share price and performance. Such posts are deemed as market abuse, and may be reported to the appropriate authorities.
post any private communication, or part thereof, from any other person, including from a member of the board of directors of a listed company. Such posts cannot be verified as true and could be deemed to be misleading.
post any personal details (e.g. email address or phone number).
post live price or level 2 updates.
publish content that is not your original work, or infringes the copyright or other rights of any third party.
post non-constructive, meaningless, one word (or short) non-sense posts.
post links to, or otherwise publish any content containing any form of advertising, promotion for goods and services, spam, or other unsolicited communication.
post any affiliate or referral links, or post anything asking for a referral.
post or otherwise publish any content unrelated to the board or the board's topic.
re-post premium share chat posts on regular share chat.
restrict or inhibit any other user from using the boards.
impersonate any person or entity, including any of our employees or representatives.
post or transmit any content that contains software viruses, files or code designed to interrupt, destroy or limit the functionality of this website or any computer software or equipment.
If you are going to post non-English, please also post an English translation of your post.
If you are going to post non-English, please also post an English translation of your post.
The IP address of all posts is recorded to aid in enforcing these conditions. As a user you agree to any information you have entered being stored in a database. You agree that we have the right to remove, edit, move or close any topic or board at any time should we see fit. You agree that we have the right to remove any post without notice. You agree that we have the right to suspend your account without notice.
Please note some users may not behave properly and may post content that is misleading, untrue or offensive.
It is not possible for us to fully monitor all content all of the time but where we have actually received notice of any content that is potentially misleading, untrue, offensive, unlawful, infringes third party rights or is potentially in breach of these terms and conditions, then we will review such content, decide whether to remove it from this website and act accordingly.
Premium and Verified Members
Premium Members are members that have a premium subscription with London South East and have access to Premium Chat. You can subscribe here.
London South East does not endorse such members, and posts should not be construed as advice and represent the opinions of the authors, not those of London South East Ltd, or its affiliates.
"The next part of the sentence explains docsis doesn’t need electrical component. .... it’s not difficult, especially when I next detail why the other stuff is not an advantage. "
Whereas BT are moving to more efficient brand new PON Local Access Networks with a Cloud backbone network, VM appear to be sweating their current assets to the limit. I don't blame VM for sweating their assets, as the right off for a full network redesign would wipe them out. What's clear is that BT's new network will be cheaper to run and maintain, and therefore offer better margins. As much as CATV networks were higher capacity at the turn of the century, the same wont be true with the FTTP network rollouts.
By using context & thinking can easily see I meant to say not powering cabinets is an advantage. The next part of the sentence explains docsis doesn’t need electrical component. .... it’s not difficult, especially when I next detail why the other stuff is not an advantage. Although, I understand some street cabinets are being converted to EV chargers
"Meanwhile the competing network can offer 1gig+ to 17 million premises today"
By your reasoning then, why aren't customers flocking to them, and why is VM's revenue so much lower than BT's?
VM's revenue for 2020 was just over £5 Billion, O2's revenue is just over £6.2 Billion, so the combined entity generates less than £12 Billion. NTL/VM have been around for a long long time, why didn't they wipe the floor with BT years ago if they're so good?
"Powering cabinets is an advantage & with respect to DOCSIS you fail to mention RFOG, which misses out co-ax"
How can needing to power a cabinet be described as an advantage? Cabinets use Electricity, which is an ongoing expense. Cabinets need battery backup, which requires maintenance and replacement. The Equipment installed within the cabinet needs maintenance and repair.
There are three components making up the local access section of a PON. They are: 1) The OLT at the head end. 2) The ONT's at the customer premises. 3) The Passive Fibre/Splitters, from the OLT to the ONT's.
PON is more reliable: Providing the Fibre isn't dug up, or damaged, there's nothing to maintain between the head end and the customer premises. Since the Fibre is passive, there's no requirement for batteries, power supplies, and customer facing equipment in the street. Since the ONT's are powered by the customer, BT only need to power head end equipment.
RFOG, does indeed utilise Fibre instead of Coax, but still relies on the same equipment design at the head end, so may be lacking. I've never worked in Cable TV directly, so I admit I don't fully understand the technicalities around Cable Tv network architecture, but I did work in telecommunications for nearly 40 years in total, so I do understand the technicalities of Network Transmission.
Once FTTP is fully rolled out, and all the copper assets are retired, BT/Openreach network will be: Much simpler More easily maintained Less power usage, so greener Cheaper to run with a much smaller building footprint More versatile for customer facing services
I just can't think of any advantage of having powered street cabinets/Equipment's over GPON. Aus I'm interested to read your list of advantages?
Fleccy sometimes I wonder whether you deliberately don’t understand the point, or you don’t understand
All you are doing is describing two competing networks, with a ridiculous bias towards only (which doesn’t actually exist yet)
Fibre over coax I agree is technically better, same as Betamax was better than VHS. But VHS was there, easily available & did what consumers needed
Yes a fibre connection could be faster, but the need for that kind of faster doesn’t & probably will never exist. If it did, then the backbone needed to support it would be a challenge. Therefore the capAbility to supply 10/100 or 1000gig in an access layer is bogus for foreseeable future. It’s actually no reason at all.
Powering cabinets is an advantage & with respect to DOCSIS you fail to mention RFOG, which misses out co-ax
The most important part of this equation is business. Yes Access fibre connections could support speeds no one will ever need across a backbone that couldn’t exist but 5 to 10 years time at best
Meanwhile the competing network can offer 1gig+ to 17 million premises today.....
I’m talking home bb because business have different connectivity options up to & including no co-ax
Meanwhile new access networks from BT’s completion are all fibre, not being built at the same rate as BT openreach, but they don’t need to do they?
This is the commercial competition to BT, not your one sided techno babble nonsense or your uninformed technical opinions.
Had a quick look at the Teleste Remote Physical Interface, and I don't see how it changes anything. VM still need powered cabinets, and if they want to offer 10G symmetrical, they'd have to replace the coaxial section with Fibre.
The following paragraph makes no sense to me, unless they mean for existing Cable companies, using DOCSYS, where the costs involved in a full network redesign to FTTP, and scrapping the existing Cable TV infrastructure, would be cripplingly expensive.
"Today and in the coming years, the DOCSIS solutions offer superior TCO benefits in comparison to technologies such as FTTH."
Since the new VM/O2 company will start out with £18 Billion in long term debt, and revenue only around £12 Billion they have to talk the talk, since they'll also be approaching the bond market for a further £10 Billion, to finance infrastructure spend. This narrative that VM is somehow better, or more technologically advanced than BT is false in my opinion. BT seem to be doing everything right, and investors will be rewarded in the future.
I don't dispute that 2.2Gb/s is easily enough for the majority of users, for years to come, but my point was around the versatility of FTTP to offer bespoke services to business users. The limitation of HFC is the Coax from the cabinet to the customer, and the fact that the cabinets require power to provide service. Because FTTP is passive all the way from the head end to the customer, you can potentially offer select customers 10G, or 100G, symmetrical service over the same fibre as the GPON service just by fitting a box at the customer site, and hooking up to a card at the head end via a splitter combiner. If VM wanted to offer 100G, they would have to look at spare fibres in the cabinet, run Fibre from the cabinet to the customer, with the process being way more complicated than using wavelengths separate to standard GPON wavelengths over an FTTP service. Aus HFC is just inferior to FTTP, I don't think you'll find any articles suggesting that HFC is superior to FTTP. Upgrading to Docsys 3.1 just delays VM going to a full fibre operating model, which they'll have to do at some point. I'm guessing that VM's Head End Equipment is a generation behind as well, as it's geared toward a cable TV operating model, rather than a full cloud operating model based on FTTP. I don't think it's a coincidence that BT are moving toward a full FTTP model, with the Telereal Trillium sale and rent back lease agreement coming to and end around 2031. BT will be a much leaner and efficient company 10 years from now, VM will be playing catch up.