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Non sense. The destruction of democracy happens when stupid people worship lies and liars. When 3 funded campaigns (funded by who?) sew division in 3 different ways & still never explain what people were voting for. I assume you’re so far gone you’d like to see people who haven’t lost their minds sent to concentration camps? Sure sounds like it to me...... as if shouts of “enemies of the state” & “Will of the people” wouldn’t make you wake up to the evil behind Brexit ..... as if the enemy of democracy is more democracy..... you’ve been conned, quicker you work it out better for everyone
Sorry Aus but I think its you that needs help. Remainers lost, LOST. If it won`t sink in then you must seek help for it is making you bitter and twisted. The whole establishment went against the British people including Obama, and recommended stay. Still the people said leave, Leave Aus Leave. Not to follow it through would be the destruction of democracy as we know it. Very dangerous and not funny.
*Docsis coax looks horrendous in homes.
Aus, docsis is limited bandwidth. Pure fibre isn't. Fibre is 100th the size circumferentially probably too and looks horrendous in new build. New processes originated by BT and OR mean new build homes are now able to be installed prebuild by the subby sparkies from Termination in the premise to termination in the outside floor boxes.
Sky and Murdoch were the driver behind all the Fake FTTP hooha to OFCOM to try and get OR totally separated from BT but his war failed and as soon as the decision was made by OFCOM to only have a partial separation then he threw in the towel and sold out. Make no mistake had OR been totally removed from BT then Murdoch would have been trying to take it over.
As it stands, I think within 2 years, the copper side will be split and BT will keep all the FTTC/P networks and OR will become just a maintenance company for the remaining copper Distribution side and BT will once again become the wholesaler of all FTTC/PP services.
LLU will be dead in the water. BT will be hoping other network providers like Liberty and Hyperoptic etc still grow as it will become too difficult for OFCOM to keep regulating BT only and have to allow all operators access regardless. Its the only way full fibre for all can happen.
IMO of course lol.
Bertram - just to help you out there. That’s not democracy it’s tyranny..... I’m surprised to see such an infantile comment from you regarding democratic opposition to stupidity. Looks like Brexit can poison anyone. Funny that.
Ow gowd, rattles out of pram time again from the remoaners. If the EU is so good they could always go live there. Or Russia and China as they are not keen on DEMOCRACY either.
Now there will be more old tosh from the MINORITY remaniacs but take this to the bank, I don`t care ,we are leaving, get used to it, move on, and concentrate on BT`s woes. Much better reading.
Zib, I admire your confidence. The fact still remains that Comcast continuing to use Openreach is ideologically opposed to their entire cable investment, sums of money which make filling in gaps where virgin cannot reach look like petty cash. Let me just run this by you again, ideologically 180 degrees opposed to the reason why they exist, their cable services development and chances of DOCSIS scale. I put the chances much, much lower than the certainty you profess.
There's no chance whatsoever of Comcast and Liberty working together to build a network lol.. Virgins is built already. They arent in the business of helping a rival TV firm to use what has taken them through different guises the best part of 30 years and billions in investment and I doubt there is no appetite from Comcast to throw tens of billions more over the 40 billion already spent on Sky when they can access the Open reach FTTP network at mates rates.
In fact SKY bulk migration to the OR FTTP starts in earnest in just under 6 weeks. Talk Talk likewise.
Fibre broadband in every home!
Borasconi said so.
It must be true.
"Fleccy - you really are a piece of work "
Haha, you're a bit touchy, I also used "people like me" and I don't feel offended.
Looks like you've come down with a bad case of Brexit hysteria, have you thought about seeing someone
about your Brexit Anxiety disorder?
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/apr/04/anger-and-frustration-how-brexit-is-affecting-our-mental-health
Donvan- that which is true or in accordance with fact or reality. Therefore a lie is a false representation of fact or reality & deception is knowingly mid representing reality, fact or truth. An example of which would be bendy bananas or more recently claims of EU regulations for transporting fish, which was also not entirely untrue. For me personally uninformed opinion, deliberately fed to people, with he intention of deceiving them or to promote an agenda would also fit that category. (Take your pick)
We do indeed live in strange and disturbing times.
Brexiteers and Remainers alike have given up on defending or deriding Brexit and it is just accepted the country and its people will be dramatically worse off IF it happens!
The fight is now just tribal
Aus3009 - What is truth?
Donvan- Confucius quote "Life is really simple, but we insist on making it complicated.". Part of my point about voting for lies and liars and then wondering why?
Aus3009 - If only life were as simple as the black and white picture you portray.
As an addition to my last Brexit is relevant to this discussion because this is about chaos as a result of Brexit. Brexit was in fact a vote for chaos, which by definition isn’t always the kind of chaos you wanted or thought you were voting for. It only gets worse from here is my view
Hey Pete, of course you are right about sweeping Brexit statements, I was provoked by the breath taking leave world view and how that makes my attempt to process & interpret incoming Information as some kind of “enemy of the state”..... the view I am reporting is purely an attempt to stitch these things together into what I think is a possible or even likely outcome. I see this morning press reports that BT has also registered this risk and is pushing BT to act faster.... again not necessarily a good thing if BT had other medium term plans..... for me, this is starting to come together and begins to explain why market analysts Are behaving as they are towards Bt. I’m not sure whether BT policy being driven by a cable threat or a cable threat of expansion is helpful. My concern is Bt could be pushed into spending money set aside for other things too soon. Boris, trump, American cable giants, trade deal, U.K. weakness & trump methods come together to warrant consideration / discussion
Hmmm. Putting aside any sweeping views on people for how they voted on Brexit that's quite though provoking.
I'd really like to think that's a domesday scenario Aus but then who would ever have envisaged just over 3 years ago the US would have a president with the mindset and apparent ability to 'lie and convince' that Trump has, that the UK would 'inherit' a PM with the track record of BJ as a consequence of the 'personal' views of around 0.2% of the population, and that we would in theory be on a path to exit from an agreement that has been fundamental to the wealth, security and stability of our nations for almost 50 years, with this representing a significant threat to the future of a United Kingdom.
We do seem to live in time where logic and rationale seems to have become secondary to ego and emotion. I hope it doesn't lead to where you suggest as I suspect saying 'I told you so' will prove to be of little consolation.
Fleccy - you really are a piece of work “ people like you” .... I’m not quite sure who you think you are? I define you by your Brexit vote, I believe many will in the future, but that’s between you and who ever. I assume “people like you” does not refer to thirst for understanding or an ability to question information in an attempt to identify risks and opportunities. I assume based on your simpleton Brexit performance you have been groomed to think such things as heresy? There’s no opinion from me that you should buy or sell, I’ve not even expressed whether this information is positive or negative, only that your dismissal of it did not incorporate the information within the hypothesis. Those being Boris looks to be a puppet of Bannon & trump, the U.K. now has an organised American cable threat in Comcast (sky) & liberty (virgin) who are already looking to cooperate to increase network, full fibre is number 2 or 3 on bojo’s plan you think this is good for Bt, the alternative is bojo needs a trade deal with trump, trump has a strong upper hand & i’m Identifying he might use leverage to make sure his American cable companies are given a leg up over BT...... along with cheap poor quality meat, Huawei and anything else. Your response is cost ( that’s the point U.K. government will in some way be paying) and Openreach buildings (where cable rollouts do not significantly use Bt buildings) as reasons to dismiss. Pointing out this opinion is not negative, it is a realisation of how operating conditions and old certainties have changed. As for non urban areas, this again is pointlessly silly, these cable giants are not interested in anything that won’t make money, if the government will make it pay for them, they will cable it, if not they won’t , either way is as good a business proposition for Bt as duct or pole rental was last night. I’m saying bojo, trump, weak negotiating position, trumps mode of operation, cable giants now established & their probable attitude towards cable NOT incumbent provider adds up to significant change, even if that means sky using cable where it can rather than Openreach. All these outcomes look plausible to me, an opinion I’m sharing, but is one that does not make me a “ people like”. Even if Farage has told you they are out there to get you
They have a valuable set of assets that enable products and services that are in greater demand than anything else you can easily think of. We live in an age where virtually every individual and every business want access to the internet and to be connected to it wherever they are, 24 x 7.
Yes there are challenges such as regulation and competition that need to be managed but they are a reflection of the scale of market opportunity with both being attracted by the potential of the industry.
The question is have BT got the right marketing and operational strategy and can they effectively manage and fulfil, such that they exploit their assets and secure best results.
I'd like to think a company as big as BT with the brand and leverage they have should be capable of recruiting the best minds and the best technicians, deploying them in a way that will deliver best success.
That's the key to their future.
We could go around in circles Aus. In the end, you either believe that BT will decline to nothing and Openreach, EE, all their subsidiary and Enterprise business, are all worthless and competition will completely wipe them out, or that they hold a valuable set of assets that will reap rewards going forward. I see value in their array of assets, are you saying that people like me are in some way delusional? Because I don't understand the negativity from people like you. I'm in BT for the long haul, because I believe that telecom stocks are unfairly undervalued by the market. Incidentally, I don't have any emotional feeling towards BT, I have as much capital invested in Vodafone too. I just think telecom stocks are undervalued in general.
Okay so virgin have used Bt ducts for 2,000 extra homes..... so are you saying BT Openreach has a bright future as a duct reseller?... the other pact if that article is 60 to 65% of homes have access to virgin media’s access network. To answer the third company question it would be an investment vehicle essentially carrying dept (after the governments money has been absorbed)
An idea of the costs involved, for rollout alone.
https://www.ispreview.co.uk/index.php/2018/04/building-uk-summary-fttp-broadband-rollouts-investment.html
"Fleccy I’m quoting project lightening, as in the ability to “just carry on “ is already in place. It’s standard practice for articles to quote using Openreach ducts and pokes."
Actually Virgin media have already used BT ducts to cable out, but they will have to pay for the use, they wont get it for nothing.
https://www.ispreview.co.uk/index.php/2019/04/virgin-media-uk-use-openreach-cable-ducts-to-expand-wales-network.html
BT already have infrastructure, as they own Openreach, so other providers are instantly at a financial disadvantage. BT can simply roll out fibre, cheaper and easier than anyone else. At some point BT will take the gloves off and a lot of these new entrants will just merge, or go bust.
I don't really believe the Malone story, why would they want to roll out Fibre, from scratch, in an already highly competitive market, where they wont be able to guarantee a return on their invested capital? Also, why would they use a new company, when they could do it via Virgin media?
It wouldn't surprise me if BT is being eyed up for a takeover, lots of negative press aimed at depressing the share price, articles siting potential behemoth competitors and so on. The narrative may be to drive down the BT share price as much as possible and attempt a takeover, similar to what happened with Cable & Wireless. I'll just keep holding and reinvesting, because I don't see a problem with BT.
Pacey i don’t know why you continuously miss the point in trying to make. It seems pretty obvious to me the American cable industry will be talking to trump and Boris & this will be on the trade deal agenda, Boris is already telling us it’s high on his list. These companies will lay cable any where the U.K. government pays them for. Currently bt’s Network is worth less than £20bln...:. The market is telling you this every day