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I remember when you were here a couple of months ago before you were exposed for the fool and deramper you are. You could Atleast have had the brains to set up a different user name.
It's funny how just a few hours ago you were claiming to be a potential investor seeking information. That ruse didn't last long did it?
You could Atleast keep up. The case is being settled out of court in all probability for a lot less than the provisioned amount. Pls read the RNS before you embarrass yourself.
Also Google how many companies have faced these type of cases. The effect on sales being absolutely none.
Another one who knows nothing about customer marketing
I'm talking about customer marketing because the conversation has moved on from just returns to how you achieve revenue growth and how a majority can come from good customer marketing. Its not all about acquisition, even in a growth business. Better retention will increase profitability and revenue growth more effectively than massive acquisition spend.
On the subject of returns, it's not just about the cohorts, it's more to do with specific modelling for both acquisition and retention
What are you talking about customer marketing? It's not relevant for the below you're talking about returns
And for some reason the need for an abuse policy although it isn't a factor
The CLV is weighted as they know order value, rate of order and returns as a %.
These are all already known and factored into the model. It the very basis used to push back on the argument against the "unfair" advantage against the high street re business rates
Why on earth would the market leader make it proposition worse? And why are you bothered about returns if it was a one off exceptional which had nothing to do with abuse (CFO's words)
You clearly don't understand customer marketing.
I follow the presentations closely, I just don't believe everything I hear. After all, I have written loads of them over the years!
The key point you are missing is customer retention and long tail marketing. As an example O2 used to gain a quarters extra revenue each year compared to Vodafone just because the retention was so much better.
The cohorts Boo have don't do proper clv, when they do they will have to address returns
When doesn’t Asos do free returns? For serial returners? But that’s irrelevant here as boohoo CFO said they don’t have any issue with returns abuse or people ordering multiple sizes
So the change in policy you’re talking about would have made 0 difference to December update as it was apparently all down to cancel Christmas events (even though Asos didn’t see the same issue)
So I don’t know why the point of asos’s abuse policy is raised here as it’s not a trend or issue seen as boohoo. Comparing the Asos policy for what boohoo sees ie people just changing their mind then the return policy is free
25% revenue growth is true but a share of wallet is only so far. You can’t compound grow a PLT customers pocket 25% annually. Also the “plan” you see from management (do you watch the presentations?) is about customer growth and market share this is why they show you the customer cohort charts to show what they see as the best route ie they increase and retain customers. Average AOV has been flat the last few years. Order frequency is a slight trend up but not 25% compounded
So even you do grow AOV by 5% and frequency you’re tapping out soon and have to get back to customer growth
Again “strategy” you’re not looking at the business and what is there. You’re giving answers from a textbook
Same point is the margin. Management have slashed margin guidance for short term (current and next year) so they aren’t looking to push it back up yet. They are saying the returns issue was one-off due to omnicron so why out in place a long term change in policy for a one off issue?
Boohoo do not have returns abusers. Said from the CEO at the Q 3 update. The Asos abuse policy is not relevant here
Also I'm a little confused. I've never mentioned sale and lease back of anything!
We have already established that Asos don't offer free returns to all customers. They reserve the right to close the accounts of serial returners. So Boo would not be unique and would still have the same great proposition to market.
Boo aim to grow revenue by 25%, not customers. At a margin of 10% over the medium term. Companies do not always say what they mean in presentations.
My belief is that if they want to maintain the margin they are going to have to look at free returns for low value customers. I know for a fact that many retailers are trying to develop customer lifetime value models to improve their revenue and profitability. One of the best ways to maintain margin is to get rid of the customer long tail
There’s nothing negative in my post
My answers are most bullish! Smash the market and have the best product and proposition.
Look at U.K. growth last quarter! Where boohoo has all these things it’s a winner by a mile
And these guys want to take away a key part of the proposition
People here really confuse who’s the bulls and who are bears. Why? As they aren’t really understanding
@dream so you think the market is moving such that the consumer will accept return fees?
Ok well when all the competition offer free returns do you really think that? All this modern tech, speed of delivery and the overall message that shopping online is more convenient and you think consumers (price conscious and young as the case of boohoo) will go yeah ok I’ll pay £5 a time to return a pair of jeans as I bought two sizes
In some cases that’s adding 20% to the product cost! It’s going one way and that’s free returns. As much as it hurts it’s a moat for boohoo and Asos as when they automate (Asos has) it hurts smaller competitors more
It’s like factory wages going up. It hurt boohoo but eventually you automate and guess what robots don’t want payrises and the smaller competitors get hurt more and more. You want free returns as it clips the wings of smaller competition
Boohoo has visions of being a global fashion business. You want market share. Keep free returns and take the market share. T4G noting “only 90%” you don’t want to lose 10% you want to be gaining 25% yoy!
I worked on Investment Banking and now I’m quasi PE
@T4G boohoo aren’t claiming to have an issue with serial returners. The CFO said at the last update “very little instances of people ordering multiple sizes and returning”
They say it’s not an issue. So as well as it being a disaster (this is a growth business not a cash saving insolvency - from the sale and leaseback comment I think you have boohoo mixed up - you want growth). Boohoo should be market leading and gaining ground
Not booting out customers and threatening others and also as the CFO says it’s not an issue it’s just something that’s being claimed here as I don’t think we’ve all listened to the update
Plus I run those surveys and action customer plans based on them in my day job.
They are full of over claim and typically you only focus on the top 4 or 5
The headline messaging stays the same.
For 90% of the customers absolutely nothing changes.
So the core offering remains the best in the market.
The only people who feel a difference are the abusers.
Banks and telcos have been doing this for 20 years.
O2 were doing it when they were the 4th most loved brand in the country.
It's not madness it's totally business sense. Boo are probably the only retailer who could do it effectively because their analytics are so much better
You can’t offer worse than the market. You’re supposed to be market leader
It’s like speed of delivery. The market expectation is 1-3 days
You don’t offer that customers go elsewhere. You charge for returns when everyone else is free they go elsewhere
If you’re market leader - LEAD the market!
Rather than all the way off opinions how about some real data?
Pg 19 look at how such a high % of customers will shop less if they can’t have ease of returns
23% would buy less if the return isn’t easy
30% buy more if the return is easy
Now do you think the younger and more price conscious boohoo shopper is the higher or lower end of the skew? Higher obvious
So yeah charging returns? Brilliant idea!
What next? Sale and leaseback of warehouse that you’re supposed to max out in 4 years! (Hadn’t punched the maths in the calculator before making that point I think)
Asos threatened to change it but in reality nothing happened. I remember the memes going round about how Asos was going to check your socoial media to see if you wore it
Boohoo “personalising returns” people will shop elsewhere. T4G it’s madness. What PLT sell so does misguided or missy empire
Shoppers will go elsewhere. As market leader you’re going to offer a second rate service?
I hope that’s not “strategy” or “change management” advice!
Boohoo is so good, the investment in delivery and service and the product so great that our proposition is about to get worse?
Part of Boo's moat is the quality of their customer data and analytics
It would be far easier for then to adopt an intelligent policy at the customer level than any of their competitors.
Primark, for example, don't even know how many customers they have!
Agreed there is scope for maneuver for this if returns come endemic.
I guess they have to tread carefully though. It's a fine line between tightening policy and angering the market they have created for themselves.
You have to think that for each user account, there has to be statistics on this user regarding purchases, number & nature of returns and profitability of that account, I.e. unit economies. If a user account falls below x, policy can be tightened to weed out these accounts and improve unit economics. After all, an account that loses you money is pointless to keep. Only boohoo know the exact dynamic of this issue, but if postage stays high the customer may be a little more lenient; almost expecting it if you like. Maybe now is the time to act?
ASOS changed their returns policy a few years ago. I worked there at the time. (worked there for 5 years and left 2 years ago). There were incidents of serial returners, clearly used product being returned in a poor condition and returns happening way beyond the official period. They tightened the policy on all of those.
There is probably scope for some change to returns policy for Boohoo although it may not make too much difference.
That said, any returns policy change has to take account of the online curse - you can't try anything on in advance.
One needs to ask why Returns have been allowed to get out of control for so long , to the extent of impacting on Costs, when we’re told they’re only running 7% higher than the pre- pandemic period ! It hardly inspires confidence that Mgmt are on top of the issue or know what to do about it . Perhaps they should tune into this BB !
The whole debate about returns is very knee jerk. We cannot exactly call this a trend yet so any action the company take would certainly rock the boat. However if it becomes a trend, then there are a couple of solutions to combat this.
1) monitor accounts for abuse of this. These customers have absolutely no benefit to the customer so why do business with them. Something like 10 returns a month should be a massive red flag so an account ban should happen. Win win for boohoo as it passes the problem on to competitors.
2) fair use policy. I can see this course of action being implemented if returns remain high. Of course unlimited returns for damaged items will remain, but for items not damaged, this could work. They can also guise it as doing good for the environment, so again a win win for boohoo. Weed out the non profitable customers abusing returns. Customers that purposely damage items to return can be weeded out by statistics. Of course if one company implements this, I think it will cascade to others as no company likes this perk they have created themselves.
Then there is the arguement of you made your own bed, so lie in it.
All your research, mostly wrong, and you still won't admit how much you are down on ABF!
As I've said before Boo have the ability and the legal flexibility to offer personalised pricing on returns. This is the direction I believe they will go.
It's exactly what banks and telcos do. Get rid of customers who are abusing their service or they can't make money on
Not offer free returns? Absolute madness!
Why would any shop at boohoo when every other brand gives you free returns?
Missguided is a similar trend to PLT and you can get next day delivery for £10 and free returns
Why would I pay for PLT and pay to send it back? Absolute madness
The competition offer that service and as “market leader” we want to offer a poorer service? Insane
The issue is is that boohoo has (had) great sales in the US but didn’t invest the infrastructure now £2.50 a time to fly it back to U.K.
But you have to swallow this as consumers can just go to fashionnova
…..shorts on here are using psychological techniques to make you doubt your investment.
£2BILLION in sales and still growing thru temporarily unfavourable market conditions.Next and ASOS have both raised prices to restore margins.We will do the same and I think we’ll see a revised returns policy.
People comment as if the company doesn’t have the power to adapt and change.It does and it will.