We would love to hear your thoughts about our site and services, please take our survey here.
London South East prides itself on its community spirit, and in order to keep the chat section problem free, we ask all members to follow these simple rules. In these rules, we refer to ourselves as "we", "us", "our". The user of the website is referred to as "you" and "your".
By posting on our share chat boards you are agreeing to the following:
The IP address of all posts is recorded to aid in enforcing these conditions. As a user you agree to any information you have entered being stored in a database. You agree that we have the right to remove, edit, move or close any topic or board at any time should we see fit. You agree that we have the right to remove any post without notice. You agree that we have the right to suspend your account without notice.
Please note some users may not behave properly and may post content that is misleading, untrue or offensive.
It is not possible for us to fully monitor all content all of the time but where we have actually received notice of any content that is potentially misleading, untrue, offensive, unlawful, infringes third party rights or is potentially in breach of these terms and conditions, then we will review such content, decide whether to remove it from this website and act accordingly.
Premium Members are members that have a premium subscription with London South East. You can subscribe here.
London South East does not endorse such members, and posts should not be construed as advice and represent the opinions of the authors, not those of London South East Ltd, or its affiliates.
Vv the term is referred to as “mark up”.
@vauxhallviva - what you are calculating is the “mark-up”, which is different from gross profit.
Hi Halespur, no Im not dividing by 29.50
Im looking for the percentage increase from the 18.50 that is being put in by BMN for each kg, to what they receive as a sale price on that endeavour. Ie the increase of $11 compared to the 18.50 invested (11/18.50) = 60% increase in gross wealth before admin expenses etc.
Hey VV Im not mathmatician but are you dividing $18.50/29.50 to get the figure which tell's the production cost percentage.. When the actual profit is the difference $11 gained. $11/$29.50 = 37.2%
Thanks Pickler, just looked up the official calc for gross profit margin and it is indeed as you define it ie the denominator is sales not costs as I had done.
However that calculation is a bit of nonsense really as businesses layout money as the cost of production and then sell at a markup (hopefully). The % of that markup over and above the cost of sales is what Im pointing out. Ie in the case of BMN for every 18.50 they invest in producing a kg of V they receive 29.50 (a 60% increase on the money invested).
If this measure is not gross margin then what official accounting term is given to this measure?
Will have a look.
22p upside seems a bit stingy however, I have that as fair game for current with a PE 10 based on cash profits (not vanchem rewrite)
There are a load of tutorials and youtube stuff .. you can get a pretty good feel for if it will work for you without subscribing. There is probably a free trial if you ask them.
I only have the basic package - the premium ones have more data, tools and live L2 data - all of which is of no real use - I am not a trader
thanks faramog, will have a look, cannot afford it right now as I am so underwater ;)
ha ha .. lots of really quick forecast tools to look at things like upside for SP .... current data says Bushy has a current upside to 22p based on a 2 and 3 year div of 0.2 and 0.5p ... but if you put in from 2 years, 1,2,3 & 4p for 2,3,4 & years (not unrealistic .. remember every 1p is 11M in cost... so 44M in div off 8,400 MTV and electrolyte sales revenues of $3-400M is not that unrealistic given what we know) then the current SP upside should be 157p.
Try this with the top AIM share for net profit and you find there is zero upside to current SP. Even to maintain that prediction going forward the dividends have to grow 20%+ over 5 years.... There is no absolutes, but you can get a sense easily of potential up/downside and scale quickly.
Just bear in mind some data is up to a year old. Data is updated as results come out, but nothing is every total - its a tool.. nothing more and you have to ask the right questions of it... but I find it easy to interrogate and worth it for me as it covers all sorts of shares, funds, bonds and commodities
ta, was wondering where you got the profitability list on AIM from, other than working them all out :)
I subscribe @Bassguy ... think it is 28 quid a month. It does not have 'everything' - no system does, but does have a very wide selection of data going back over 20 years.
What I really like is I can create quite complex filters and also download data so I can run my own spreadsheet analysis.
I just find it easy for a quick look at things and pretty good for a really detailed look
Do you subscribe faramog or is there a free version :) sharescope looks useful
Before this gets out of hand, focus on the cash ... the exact number (on a live[ish] system) will vary but Sharescope has Bushveld as the 6th most profitable company on AIM by NET Profit (Will drop down a little as other results come in but top 10-12 for sure
TOP 10 for NET profit out of 724 on aim... and if we were on the FTSE we would have been 213th out of 614 !
Focus on that peepz !
Hi VV
I think your %’s are a little out
Gross Margin % is usually calculated based on your profit as a % of sales
So with Bushveld you have $11 profit on sales of $29.5, which equates to a margin of 37.3%
Hochschild would be 32.8% and Barricks 29.5%
Happy to be corrected.
Its understanding what the net profit is from that and the residual margin. Gets complicated but any other costs - usually lumped as admin - would need to be taken into account.
So just to pass another few minutes Ive just had a look at Hochschild mining to look at the gross margin on their silver mining.
Production costs: $12.3oz
Current price: $18.3oz
Margin: 49%
So far then my league table is;
Barrick copper: 44%
Hochschild silver 49%
BMN vanadium 60%
Barrick gold 74%
Inspired by our amateur troll last night, thought i would start a thread that might compare operating margins for various companies and a variety of metals.
Bushvelds costs, to calculate accurately the gross margin, wont be fully clear until we get Q3 numbers as this will be the first quarter hopefully unaffected by cv19 but we can go with the Q1 number for now of $18.50kg giving a current operating margin at $29.50kg sold, of 60%.
As a comparison and as a Barrick holder; Copper currently sells at 2.78lb(about its 5 year average) and costs Barrick 1.96lb so 44% gross margin. At best copper reaches $3lb so Barricks max margin in really good times is around 50%.
Gold is clearly booming and could become any price but Barricks current margin is 74%.
These 2 margins for Barrick, ramped up on a huge multinational scale, are enough to justify it having a PE of over 25.
Anyone got the margins for other companies to hand?