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Marine engine examples https://newatlas.com/go/3263/
A VRFB could fit well with Maersks Sail project too.
https://www.ship-technology.com/news/maersk-tankers-installs-two-rotor-sails-vessel-cut-fuel-costs/
Good spot Hamill
https://glomeep.imo.org/technology/hybridization-plug-in-or-conventional/
Maybe these would be the guys to "wake".
https://glomeep.imo.org/
No offence taken Paludina, its just ships effectively have ready made electrolyte tanks and some of the ballast or cargo weight could be substituted for electrolyte.
@dubmaskullanga: I have no intention to demean your thoughts or opinions. One unfortunate problem is that a loaded tanker carries very little to no ballast and dependent upon any part cargo the ballast is distributed to different areas of the vessel.
Happy to be corrected, was just thinking out aloud as ships carry a lot of ballast and why not make it electrolyte.
@dubmaskullanga: I am afraid that your calculations on Large vessel power are very simplistic and unfortunately flawed.
Harland and Wolff in Belfast are looking buyers...
All their ships come with the standard "No Ice Berg" warranty.
I used to work for some companies that could be poked on Social Media.
https://www.sanco.no/
https://www.gcrieber-shipping.com/
Not in this country any more :-(
Hamil - like submarines and high rise buildings there is nowhere to easily run to if a fire does break out so safety is definitely another key point in VRFB's favour. Do we know anyone who builds ships ?
VFRBs would still be regulated, but if you remove the fire risk, you can see how much of the regulation becomes unnecessary.
https://ww2.eagle.org/content/dam/eagle/rules-and-guides/current/other/275_lithiumbatteries_marineoffshore_2017/lithium-batteries-guide-aug18.pdf
Now with ships, you can have sails!
https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2017/mar/14/spinning-sail-reboot-cut-fuel-make-ocean-tankers-greener
Can save 10% of the energy.
Now these large ships have an awful lot of room for ballast, up to 200,000m3 for large tankers.
If you could put aside a chunk of ballast for electrolyte you could be storing 15-25kWh/m3
1/2 the ballast would be
That ferry was ~60m and could do 40km on a 4.3MWh battery, big tankers are about 10x larger, but increasing size does not need a proportional increase in power.
Ferry uses 0.1075 MWh/km, say a large tanker uses 0.86MWh/km.
!/2 the ballast as electrolyte and getting say 20kWh/m3 gives you a 2000MWh storage gives you a range of 2300km
That ferry uses a 4.3MWh battery (from Leclanche not Lechanche as stated in the article) - compare this with our 450kWh battery at Eskom - that is a 20 foot container size. So roughly 4.5 container sizes if you use VRFBs. Obviously it would be smaller if you built it into the ship instead of packaged it within containers. I'm not sure the same approach can be used with Lithium-ion batteries, not without risking that a fire might not be containable.
Personally I don't think that many mobile applications suit VRFBs (historical golf carts excepted). The weight is not the issue per se, as if you use regenerative braking then the extra energy you have to put into getting the battery moving is offset by the extra energy you can put back into it when you slow down. Also the size is not so much the issue, in eg the train situation, as having to have 1 full carriage stuck on the back of the train is not significantly worse than having to put half an extra carriage on the back of the train. No I think it is actually the vibration that is the VRFB killer for trains.
Ships however, that's another matter:- https://www.euronews.com/2019/08/20/world-s-largest-all-electric-ferry-sets-sail-in-denmark
Ha, ha, ha........... nice one for a Friday morning.
I was thinking donkey powered swing bridges would get round that one.
True, but then we are into the whole electrification of the whole network debate (bi-mode train anyone!!)
dubmaskullanga - the problem with wind is that the sails don't fit under the bridges
This is a passenger line, so using data from here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Energy_efficiency_in_transport#Trains
German ICE trains use 19-33 kWh/km.
Weymouth to Waterloo is 191km, so you need between 3629kWh and 6303 kWh for that one journey.
back of a fag packet calc:
Maximum power output of ICE high speed trains varies between 4,800-9,600 kW
taking a middling value, 7000kW that means you will need in the region of 14000 solar panels (going full tilt) to power that train.... scary numbers.
Our better option is wind obviously, but we will need the storage!
The argument for lugging the battery around with you is that you can use it when you are on a non-electrified piece of track.
I guess it would make more sense trackside... reduce weight of the train.
I got stuck on an electric train once in Europe mid summer, there had been a power cut.... nearly baked everyone.
Wouldn't happen with Battery back up.
Nah, keep the VRFB's trackside. Charge them up when the sun shines / wind blows and feed them direct into the network as required.
You could make a whole carriage of a train a VRFB.. ?
https://www.theguardian.com/business/2019/aug/22/rail-line-in-hampshire-is-worlds-first-to-be-powered-by-solar-farm