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Does anyone have an example of other completed Chinese takeovers of publicly-held British companies? Ten people telling each other that it takes too long, doesn’t make it true.
I found the case of British Steel, in receivership, for which the government encouraged the takeover starting in November 2019. It was completed in March 2020.
I concur with a lot of the sentiment here.
A lot of what Fozdog is saying about Chinese companies taking a long time to jump through bureaucratic hurdles is true, but there's also a BoD ready to facilitate this.
With regards to making complaints to the FCA etc - By all means, feel free to get in touch... It's not going to do us any harm.
But in terms of another mass email campaign, we've got to wait until we have something concrete - Both in terms of making a measurable impact, and in terms of having an offer on the table.
Unfortunately, it's a waiting game at the moment. We just have to wait it out until there's an offer on the table.
Ok Fozdog I get it now....
Decided I would mot let my money stagnate in this for the foreseeable I sold 50% of my holding last week just before the further extension was granted . Put the money in another lithium stock which has gone up a few % since. Its laughable (and sad) how they can get away with this manipulation. Stricter laws needed in my opinion. It's always the us PI's that get shafted on AIM , that's why one should always have keen eye on these type of stocks.
'The issue is we can't change anything till we have a formal bid or GF walk away'.
Don't think I have seen a truer statement written here. Everything hinges on this
I know John, I am not happy & no one should be but there will be those that bought cap raise at 45p and see a nice 50% return for their funds in 3-6months....so not everyone is one same boat.
The issue is we can't change anything till we have a formal bid or GF walk away.
Extensions don't imply walk away, pricing doesn't imply that also. Get the bid and then you really find out where the BOD is & where larger shareholders are. The BOD can't hide at that point....
As said before if the bid looks likely to fail that's when someone might step in and take a stake here.
Our share in ZNWD is worth what £25-30mn odd now? When they started the bid it was circa £10mn.
I still never know why we didn't raise enough money to fund ZNWD I mean we needed £10m to buy out rest of Solarworld and we raised extra cash so had enough to do that. Maybe muddied the waters for BOD to get what they want from this?
I wrote a post saying why don't we force GF to stump up money for ZNWD the moment they hit 28.8% and you actually replied to me along the lines of not upsetting GF ie 'you dont rock the boat with your major partner' !!! Well that worked out....
I agree SP would be higher, but what could and would have been is irrelevant now.
All that matters is getting a firm bid and then doing everything possible to get it resoundingly rejected. Everything else is irrelevant.
I got what you meant, but none of us are happy with this. It will be interesting to see what happens if the bid arrives - will the SP discount it being successful in, say, 6 months time so maybe 62p-63p or will it plummet if GF back out of the bidding process? Me, I haven't got clue any more, all I know is that I think the SP would be higher if this possible bid had never occurred
No mrC think you are missing what I’m saying.
I am not happy with 67.5p, i am voting no “when” we finally get there.
Whatever is going on with extensions 3 months ago The bod and gf have “preliminarily” agreed 67.5p and entered into a scheme of arrangement.
That is there and fixed we can’t change that.
The point is right now the bod can’t say and can’t do anything until a firm offer is on the table.
Gf can’t change anything their side until they have put the offer firm on the table and triggered form 2.7 which is legally binding.
In a dream / fantasy world they are discussing with bod and realise no chance getting this through so already looking at the next valuation or bid post this (if there will be one).
Once the firm bid has actually happened then the actual discussion begins and anyone else looking will get involved.
First the bod have to opine - and they then can answer questions.
So if they say we think it’s a good deal and recommend it to shareholders we are all going to argue the case and lose our cool.
Or they reject it as undervalued, very slim chance of that with the current bod.
M&g if have any sense (and others) will not opine until deal is FIRM. Same goes for anyone looking at this whether as undervalued, whether trying to merger arb it or for whatever reason they want exposure, they will not step in and play their hand until a deal is on the table.
I’m simply saying we can complain as much as we like but our bod entered this scheme months back - the only way it gets changed is with a firm bid. That firm bid does not happen until all gf ducks are lined up. That includes everything from financing into escrow to any agreements, forms and instructing everyone their side.
They will get charged substantial more fees the moment this becomes a firm bid than current format.
So right now we are in wait game, I am accepting that a Chinese company takes FOREVER and will be Uber cautious before firm bid.
We need that firm bid to proceed on anything else, and Iv come to terms that we are all in a waiting game with
Gf not some major plot by the bod.
I still want to see 67.5p and see it get rejected hands down. We will then be finally able to underpin ourselves at that valuation and ramp higher like other Li miners
Fozdog - I am confused by your post ??? Are you saying you cant wait for the 67.5p deal and are frustrated by the delay ?
The only reason I'm still here is the thought that we may be able to overturn this ridiculous deal. It a bit personal in the respect that the company I part-own is trying to stiff me ! A bit like being about to exchange contracts on a house and the estate agent selling it to someone else for 80% of what you were going to pay -- wouldnt you be suspicious of fraud on such an event ?
Hi John, sure I get that but you still have to get to a deal.
Their deal has always been 67.5p and we can't moan on that. We can moan about our BOD recommending it rather than rejecting it out of hand but that's a diff matter to where we are now.
If you believe your upside is only ever 67.5p then you should have sold 2 months ago.
I know iv moaned in the past and on reflection I am changing my view on moaning that the board or gf can do anything else but get to 67.5p bid.
We need that firm on table before can see any progress or commentary or anyone else stepping in.
It's a waiting game and the risk whenever you bring a Chinese company into it - One minute everyone was going on how great GF is and the 'partner needed', now moaning that their processes take forever.
No one complained bar myself on the 25p cap raise when it took 3 months to get their money.
I personally think this is the last major extension, anything else will be small and technical imo so given its another 3 weeks v 3 months and I still see further upside, I am happy waiting it out.
Trouble is that when all the ducks are in the row they have only authority to pull the trigger at 67.5p. That is effectively agreed with their S/H and I assume the Chinese authorities. If that is then subsequently rejected, and hopefully they propose a higher figure, then we start the whole protracted process again. How many of us want to stick around for more months of delays?
I genuinely think this is a tactic to grind opposition down until target S/H think 'Ok we'll accept and FFS lets move on'
As frustrated as Iv been and with our BOD it's easy to think they are doing for their own incentives ...however I looked into likes of imagination and Chinese involvement in deals - How much time it actually takes for them to be in a position to pull trigger.
I genuinely believe this is nothing more than getting ducks in a row.
Do I agree it should be handled like this? No, the panel needs to change rules with respect to commitments something that takes 3months ie 1/4 should require a statement as to why its being extended.
I remain sat back here as I think we have every right to ask for a Sonera update before any decision is made now with respect to a bid. We could have done a lot in the last 3 months....
I also believe it strengthens others looking at BCN and waiting for bid clarity before playing their hand.
I remain pretty relaxed and see upside from here.
I did make FCA aware of the original situation re - the BOD trying to push what was clearly a poor deal for the shareholders, and yes I agree that we should perhaps tell them of this activity also.
In my opinion the continuous extensions are a form of share manipulation and a subtle blackmail to investors to sell or remain trapped in this share for an unforeseeable time. I believe we should report the matter -if not already done so- to the appropriate authorities.
Dee - I think we need this, trouble is does it also work for brown envelopes !?
BB - are you losing your marbles ? The RNS on 6th May says it all - just in case you dont want to waste any of your time re-reading the whole RNS here is a highlight, because I did waste 15 mins of my life answering your ludicrous post :-
The Bacanora Independent Directors view the Possible Offer to be an attractive proposal which they would expect to recommend to Bacanora Shareholders in the event that Ganfeng releases the Agreed Form 2.7 Announcement at the Offer Price and otherwise on the terms and subject to the conditions to be agreed in the Agreed Form 2.7 Announcement.
Dont say that - he'll have to double post output !
Thank you, jam2morrow. I plead ignorance heretofore of the situation involving COE, former CEO, and the claim by the Orr-E. family to some of the Bacanora Ore. My research into the court proceedings of the Canadian province named after Victoria's fourth daughter has led me to believe that the decision is "imminent" pending outcome of the Jarndyce case in England.
Are u being disingenuous @Bob ?..........Hmmmm
To make amends you can try to find a re-scheduled date for this elusive court case......I've given up already!
COE = Colin Orr Ewing , original CEO of the company, died 2016, sadly. Wonder what he'd think of the company now ?
Your deramp rate per post will be getting halved :)
Oh dear Bob - your sponsor will not be impressed with your lack of knowledge regarding COE - tut tut!
I still don't know what you're talking about with the COE case -- is it their pension board's involvement in the Exxon shareholder action? (Except they are no longer shareholders there.) Jam2morrow's reference to them as "stakeholders" does test my knowledge of history, because it invokes images of their involvement in burning witches at the stake. But that's historically incorrect -- they used the gallows for witches. And when my country was a British colony, it was the dissident Puritans who were involved in that.
Personally I just think the delays and extensions are just what happens when dealing with a Chinese company.
They aren’t going to get to form 2.7 unless their money is out the country, in escrow and they are ready to proceed.
I am starting to just get pretty relaxed about it, took forever for them to put their share of raise in. Just is way it is, I personally think we are close and if don’t get something ahead of this deadline next extension will be granted if literally limited due to documentation etc.
As frustrating as it’s all been here, I still believe we just need the deal on table before we see how others will behave. I’d love to see someone step in but why play your hand now without an actual bid.
We just have to wait it out.