Gordon Stein, CFO of CleanTech Lithium, explains why CTL acquired the 23 Laguna Verde licenses. Watch the video here.
London South East prides itself on its community spirit, and in order to keep the chat section problem free, we ask all members to follow these simple rules. In these rules, we refer to ourselves as "we", "us", "our". The user of the website is referred to as "you" and "your".
By posting on our share chat boards you are agreeing to the following:
The IP address of all posts is recorded to aid in enforcing these conditions. As a user you agree to any information you have entered being stored in a database. You agree that we have the right to remove, edit, move or close any topic or board at any time should we see fit. You agree that we have the right to remove any post without notice. You agree that we have the right to suspend your account without notice.
Please note some users may not behave properly and may post content that is misleading, untrue or offensive.
It is not possible for us to fully monitor all content all of the time but where we have actually received notice of any content that is potentially misleading, untrue, offensive, unlawful, infringes third party rights or is potentially in breach of these terms and conditions, then we will review such content, decide whether to remove it from this website and act accordingly.
Premium Members are members that have a premium subscription with London South East. You can subscribe here.
London South East does not endorse such members, and posts should not be construed as advice and represent the opinions of the authors, not those of London South East Ltd, or its affiliates.
Retirment - That dip was entirely predictable which I predicted on numerous posts on this site. It mainly fell on deaf ears here tho...
Thedetector. I really think you need to learn to read. The only thing I agree with you on is that as UK-based shareholder with shares in ISAs/SIPPs I'd have preferred a special dividend rather than a reorganisation (because it makes things simpler for those investors, like yourself, who are just unable to understand the process and are looking for conspiracy theories at every turn). As regards you comments about the future dividends and tax (don't forget those sleepless nights), I totally disagree with you. You think LGEN will outperform AV going forward, fair enough, that's your view (and brokers' current target prices bear that out); my experience in the last 15 months is that AV has outperformed LGEN and, as yet, I've seen nothing to suggest that LGEN warrants that confidence (the brokers have been saying much the same for the last 15 months and LGEN still hasn't stepped up to the line). However, I have a foot in both camps and, if LGEN continues to strenghten, I won't be complaining. Now give it a rest.
@SHATTER ,
thank you , I personally have never filtered anyone as I may miss something of interest , but if the comments continue from the OP regarding getting in at the bottom then their may be a first one, good luck with your investment
Hi TT,
Great to see you finally agreeing and copying my thinking stream. Also using tangent gobbledegook speak again on giving nonsense about investors from over the pond.
Now for heavens sake stop whupping the nag cos he ain't getting back up. Move on. I have enjoyed our little bit of banter and thoroughly enjoyed whupping your ass.Great to see you come onside.
I am sure your investments that you mentioned will do well and be wise buys.
All the Georgey.
Your honerable Master
Thedetector.
Uptheladder… so many self acclaimed experts on this site at the moment that I have a couple of filters running. 10 messages filtered in the past 24 hours and suspect I have missed nothing of interest. I also bought on the 16th at 394 but could have bought in the 380’s if I hadn’t dithered. Some were having difficulties with their broker sites but not all. Perhaps a case of hard cheese..g.l on your purchase..
TD, You were the one who said that some wouldn't be able to sleep because of the "hidden" tax implications, not me. I'm just pointing out that your suggestions were baloney (like a lot of the other stuff you've tried to imply).
As regards, my preference for a special dividend. My shares are held in ISA/SIPP, so a special dividend wouldn't have phased me. However, I am aware that US shareholders have a preference for capital rather than income because they don't have the benefits of ISAs and capital gains are taxed at a lower rate than income in the US. AV has an international share register and, given that a capital return or special dividend makes little, or no, difference to UK investors, opted for a capital return (in part due to the lobbying by US hedge funds). More complex, more confusing (for some) but essentially the same in all aspects. PIs in this country are often suspicious of capital returns because they think that directors are simply manipulating EPS (for the benefit of their share options) whilst at the same time taking the opportunity to reduce dividend payouts and I've been at pains to point out that AV have not sought to short change PIs. Although EPS has risen, so too has DPS and AV are planning to pay out more in dividends in FY22 than they did in FY21; the reduction in the number of shares will NOT lead (as planned) to a reduction in PIs dividend income. Obviously no future dividends are ever 100% guaranteed but AV's ability to pay future dividends is no less reduced by the capital return than it would have been by a special dividend (the overall amount AV plans to pay would have been the same just the DPS woould have been different).
I am a holder of LGEN too but, having bought AV and LGEN at the same time in February 2021, my LGEN holding is still under water (excluding dividends) whilst my AV holdings have gone from strength to strength. You are not alone in predicting that LGEN will outperform AV going forward (just crunch the brokers latest price targets and you'd realise that brokers are now predicting the yield on LGEN's shares to exceed the yield on AV's shares). The reality is that LGEN has underperformed for the last 18 months, so forgive me if I take the suggestion that LGEN will outperform AV with a pinch of salt. I expect/hope that LGEN's share price will improve and hopefully be trading above 300p later this year, if not before, but the real question is whether LGEN will be able to sustain it (it was trading above 300p in January before its most recent precipitous fall). I still think that AV has a lot to offer and I won't be divesting AV just yet.
The last 12-18 months the perception in the markets is that Blanc has been getting things done (streamlining the business, resisting the temptation to go off at a new tangent and improving the performance of the remaining business). The latest Q1 update was promising. It remains to be seen whether Blanc can achieve all of the ambitious targets that she has s
TT you agree about the special dividend as being an alternative. You say that consolidation would not have been your preferred choice.I suspect a simply understood special divi would be 1st choice for you.Aviva have an ongoing future incremental increase of divi growth stated with or with out consolidation. I was stating my preference as being a special for cash payment.I suspect lots of holders would have this preference too.
As to your ' casitgation 'comment , you know I was referring to any divi anywhere as ' pie in the sky ' until tinkled into our piggy banks. As recent covid event has proven this fact to be correct .You are mincing my comments to suit your own agenda of not accepting my facts as correct.
As your reference regarding me or maybe anyone else having capital gains tax implications .Anyone can open an ISA share account with either a bank,or share broker. ( money supermarket share isa gives info on best options ) .
When you decide which company to open your share isa you can invest any amount up to a very generous £20 thousand pounds per year and every year going forward. This means that after 5 years you can invest up to £100 thousand and so on . Obviously this sounds a lot but you can just build up an isa with a few thousand each year and after a few years it will soon start growing because the beauty of an isa share account is that any divis paid and capital growth are tax free . There is no capital gains tax to worry about ,yes all tax free earnings,great yeah.
Another bonus is that all of us are entitled to have an isa running along other forms of investments and savings accounts and that means that your wife,partner , girlfriend or boyfriend can have their own separate isa as well, DOUBLING your potential tax free earnings. Me and wifey have been topping up our 2 different isa share accounts for 5 years now and all divis received have swerved the dreaded Queens taxman,all tax free. Hope this helps some on here.
TT as for Aviva and LGEN I think they will both do well going forward.My urge is to suggest and predict that LGEN will outdo Aviva.I am sticking with them both as over the last couple of years they have been kind to me and not bedevilled me with any stress.
My prediction is that Direct line could maybe ( strong maybe) is ripe for a takeover approach and has been muted before. .Any further murmur of an approach and the SP will arc instantly upwards over 3 quid a pop. My target for this share is 300p.
Wood group is my phoenix rising from the ashes. I have them at a target price of 265p which is nearing fast.I got them real cheap,a snip.
Well I hope you have enjoyed my latest rant cos yours have knocked me out.And its goodnight from me.Wifey is indicating she needs assistance upstairs so thats all from me folks.
And for crikes sake TT stop whipping the nag,he is dead you know.
All the Georgey TT.
Thedetector, I'm sorry but you really are clueless. A special dividend would have achieved the same aim but would not have increased your future dividends one iota. As an experienced investor I fully understand why AV did the share consolidation; it would not have been my first choice but there was a business rationale that seems to be beyond your means to fathom or willingness to try and understand. We've been through the reasons before (the tax treatment in different jurisdictions) so I won't go through them again. As an aside I would mention that if you now have a capital gains tax problem because of the consolidation then you'd more than likely have a far bigger income tax problem if AV had done a special dividend (but I'm sure you'd never actually given that any thought during your rantings).
I love that you are tipping LGEN because of its great dividend and yet you castigate AV because its future dividends ain't in the bag. Do you actually ever listen to yourself? You contradict yourself at every turn!
AV is proposing to increase its FY22 dividend payment to c£870m, compared to c£831m in FY21 (a c4.7% increase in the cash cost but a c6.8% for current shareholders because after the FY21 results were announced AV purchased shares in the market for cancelation before it did the consolidation). As it happens, the proposed increase in AV's FY22 dividend is on a par with broker's consenus opinion for the increase in LGEN's FY22 dividend. These are the facts.
@ retirement
I don't need to bull**** here , I bought at 390.5 around 3 pm on the 16th pure luck , I was hoping to buy in the morning but was running late for work so I bought in the pm while having a cuppa , if you're able to look back you will see that was the price , furthermore that was on T212 which is usually a tad higher than the HL prices
TT .
Seems your misunderstanding of operandum options of a company wishing to distribute cash funds on balance sheet continues.
There are various options to distribute cash to shareholders which include recent Aviva event of consolidation ,raising of a future dividend or indeed an immediate or near future special dividend with both the latter not inclusive of cosolidation ( a simple special divi would have been my preference and would have been much easier for all experienced and novice investors to understand and play their own hand )
This debunks your point entirely of what Aviva would do if no consolidation event.
As I quoted in prior text you are getting tedious and need to move on.For crikes sake no more on this yo. .You are whipping a dead horse , the horse you backed.
PS you can monitor my recent actions to see if indeed my investment decisions are wise or not.
Aviva hold average 325p
LGEN top up average 260p ( topped up with av cash return )
DLG top up average 248p
WG ( Wood Group) top up average 230p
LGEN my top tip ,far too cheap right now with great divi.
Keep your eye out on these mate and message if any big moves.
All the Georgey to all with your picks.
Defo over and out on this consolidation lark .
I think the problem on this bulletin board and several others is that certain posters think they can influence the share price with negative and disruptive chatter. Nil chance on Aviva.
For anyone stuck for ideas on how to spend their cash return this weekend I would thoroughly recommend the new TopGun film, TopGun Maverick. It is an incredible film and the flight scenes will blow you away. Best film I've seen since cinemas reopened and well worth a trip out for the family or simply with spouse, partner or friends. Enjoy
The fact is Thedetector a lot of investors, like you, seem to struggle to add two plus two and would be far better off just puting their cash in a bank account (a lot less confusion). You refuse to do the maths and stick to your unsubstantiated assumptions. Get it into your head; AV would not be proposing to pay a dividend of 31pps if they hadn't done the share consolidation. If you could accept just that one simple fact then everything would become a lot clearer.
Correction..
The fact is a lot..
You write a load of nonsense to cover up blatent negative facts of recent Aviva consolidation event and running off on tangent speech to create confusion to appear always being correct when you obviously ain't.
The fact is not a lot of investors are not happy bunnies after they do the math and implications.
Those that bailed and bought back in are quids up plenty and are in far better positions. You are getting a bit tiring now so no more please on this subject. Let's move on.I'll bet you are a horror to have a pint with.
All the Georgey to all.
Retirment, As far as I'm aware shareholders who use HL had online access to the market from 8am. ii tell me that I would have had online access from 8.08am but I think that's bull**** (I tried and for the first hour and half Aviva wasn't even a recognised company!). I have no doubt that some PIs did buy at c£3.90 (the share did briefly dip below £3.90 in the first hour) but it would have taken fortitude and belief that the share was at, or close to, the bottom (we all know what it's like; when a share price is falling we hold off just in case the price drops a bit more and often end up missing the bottom as a result).
Retirment, You should have held and sold on 20 April ;-) Personally, I don't think the share price would have dipped below £4 if there hadn't been all the economic/political turmoil in the two week run up to 13 May (without the economic/political turmoil I think the price would have been unlikely to dip below £4.10 but that's just a guesstimate) and it's quite clear that the MMs, hedgies et al took full advantage on 16 May to make a buck at PIs expense (logically you'd think that they might have sold on 13 May to buy back cheaper on 16 May but I'm not sure how they'd have been able to fulfill their order on 13 May given that the shares wouldn't have existed on 16 May).
Anyway, you made the right call. The result might have been different without the economic/political turmoil, e.g. if the war in Ukraine had ceased in late April it's quite likely that the whole market would have received a boost (AV included), but you can only play the hand that you are dealt.
As regards, being able to buy at £3.90, a lot of us were locked out when the market opened. I got access just after 10:30am and was able to buy at c£3.95 but noted that I could have bought closer to £3.90 later in the day if I'd waited. Timing is everything
£3.95 is not 3.90 though, I do think people talk bull****, on here as wee see people quote the VERY bottom time and time again.
"There are gainers people on here bought in at £3.90 recently, a 50p gain.Funny that because I was banned from buying around that time."
Maddmax, there was no buying ban. It would have been your investment platform trying to handle the complexity of the issue, during which they stopped trading in AV. Different platforms handled it with varying degrees of competence.
Retirement - I'm not sure why you're calling bull**** on £3.90 buy-ins. It would have been perfectly simple to set up a buy limit order and fund it with money unlinked to the return of capital. I bought more immediately after consolidation at £3.95, well before I'd received the RoC. GL.
Thedetector, We'd all love to have our original shares and be paid the enhanced dividend but it was new going to happen; the profits would have to (miraculously) jump c40% overnight to justify (the equally miraculous) c40% hike in dividends. AV is proposing to increase the current year dividend by a much more manageable c7%. Do the maths!
I fully appreciate that a return of capital is a return of my own initial investment but it seems that you don't understand the rationale. Assume that you originally invest a £1,000 into a company with a mixed bag of assets that returns an average (say) 10% per annum. The company then disposes of (say) £250 of assets that were generating (say) 7% per annum (this is not "pie in the sky" logic because part of the reason for AV's disposals was that it's overseas assets weren't performing as well as their UK & Canadian assets). As a result of this disposal you've now got £750 of assets generating 11% per annum (do the maths) and £250 of assets generating (say) 2.5% per annum. Question. Is it better that the company now retain the £250 or return the money to shareholders to re-invest? I would aceept that if the money could be re-invested by the company in a short time-frame to obtain additional return at (say) 11% then the money should be retained but if not then it is better that the money is returned to shareholders so that it can be re-invested elsewhere. Returning the money to shareholders is not showing a lack of ambition. It's recognition that the company needs to improve its existing efficiency and doesn't need the present distraction of trying to find a large, complimentary acquistion. Furthemore, the remaining business is expected to generate additional surplus cash that will afford the company the opportunity to buy smaller, bolt-on, complimentary acquistions if the opportunity arises in the short/medium term.
As regards the tax aspects, we've run through those scenarios many times before and I'm not going to repeat them, suffice to say that I am fully aware of my own tax consequences, and sleep very easy, whereas you are clutching at straws.
I sold mine after the EX div date. as I did not want the consolidation crap.
I bought back in at £3.99 (I have no idea how people buy in a £3.90 at the very bottom I call bull**** on all these sort of posts, that dip was not predictable ! I bought on the 1st rise and managed £3.99.
but net result is I have more shares now than I did or would have staying in.
I sold at a price inc my div (I waited for) at £4.44 ish inc div, bought back at £3.99.
It seemed the only way to do it, I did post why stay in and risk the bull**** they did. But got poo pooed.
shares always drop with this sort of crap, zero risk selling out and buying back.
There are gainers people on here bought in at £3.90 recently, a 50p gain.Funny that because I was banned from buying around that time.
Hi TT,
I am going to try one last time on this as we are all going round the bushes and not catching any tails.
On dividend payments versus return of capital.It goes as thus.
Dividends... are PAID to shareholders from a companies profits and earnings and are taxable. ( unless ISA based) .
Return of capital ... is a return of part of or all of YOUR OWN initial investment ( not company profits) and not tax deductible I am led to believe, unless your portion of returned investment has made profit .IE if initially you paid 400p for your shares on average and then the returned cash equates to 423p then 23p profit should be declared for tax on the of shares you have been deducted from original holding.The implications of tax on this should be investigated as I might not be 100% correct on this to be sure and sleep easy.
TT as regards to reduced dividends I am not completely wrong, on the over hand you are completely right in your facts of future divis.
My whole point is that I would prefer to be rebased to my original position and still to have all my shares to be entitled to the future enhanced dividend.And all my shares to have attained recent share sp growth.But alas due to enforcement event by Miss Whitey Blanc it is not to be.
You attributed the word 'moan' about me. I am a man with a plan and a happy man.I invested an amount equal to returned cash before consolidation event on topping up of my LGEN holding. I do think that LGEN is far too cheap at the mo with a great divi return.
Like I said ,I am a man with a plan. But alas a man and his plans and we know how that turns out.
Best of luck to all with your plan too.
Byes TT.
All the Georgey.
No one is loser or gainer. Its a good Dividend paying stock for sure. I bought some more with Dividend I received. Still have cash from consolidation. Looking at the market fluctuations, I think it will hit around £4 ,,,,thats how its going to go for the next few months. Massive fluctuations.
@uptheladder
Agree. 500 is optimistic. And really, for me this is a dividend share. So I'm not too bothered about the SP.
I'm fairly please in these times to have bought a share that has increased. Obviously tough times ahead. But I'm comfortable at the moment of my AV heavy portfolio.
AV has done me very well since buying.
Thedetector
“Anyone using cash now to buy Aviva shares will lose out due to Aviva sp recent rises. Also have less shares for divi payout”
On the other hand if someone used the returned capital to buy AV shares when it was received on 19th May, as I did, they would have more shares than they did prior to the consolidation and own a greater proportion of the company due to the latter.