The latest Investing Matters Podcast episode featuring Jeremy Skillington, CEO of Poolbeg Pharma has just been released. Listen here.
London South East prides itself on its community spirit, and in order to keep the chat section problem free, we ask all members to follow these simple rules. In these rules, we refer to ourselves as "we", "us", "our". The user of the website is referred to as "you" and "your".
By posting on our share chat boards you are agreeing to the following:
The IP address of all posts is recorded to aid in enforcing these conditions. As a user you agree to any information you have entered being stored in a database. You agree that we have the right to remove, edit, move or close any topic or board at any time should we see fit. You agree that we have the right to remove any post without notice. You agree that we have the right to suspend your account without notice.
Please note some users may not behave properly and may post content that is misleading, untrue or offensive.
It is not possible for us to fully monitor all content all of the time but where we have actually received notice of any content that is potentially misleading, untrue, offensive, unlawful, infringes third party rights or is potentially in breach of these terms and conditions, then we will review such content, decide whether to remove it from this website and act accordingly.
Premium Members are members that have a premium subscription with London South East. You can subscribe here.
London South East does not endorse such members, and posts should not be construed as advice and represent the opinions of the authors, not those of London South East Ltd, or its affiliates.
"How is all else equal between these miners Hexam?"
It's not. I think you are misunderstanding what the phrase means.
RookieInvestor, and how is market responding to these class acts? Operating out of coal mines and teepees is not an attractive investment I’m afraid. They are set up for Jam today, not too endure a lengthy bear market.
“No, I agree with them. Less HODL means lower assets means more risk (especially when many of those coins are backing a loan as BITF have just found out) - all else being equal.”
How is all else equal between these miners Hexam?
FP, massive, modern, state of the art, immersion only, cheap green energy infrastructure that has room to grow with the Company well into the future.
Or they could’ve bought replacement machines to give them 100 (or so) more btc worth circa $2M today.
I think they made the right call.
"Some of the less genuine sorts on here suggest that a lower hodl somehow puts ARB at greater risk, which as a numbers guy I’m sure you laugh at too".
No, I agree with them. Less HODL means lower assets means more risk (especially when many of those coins are backing a loan as BITF have just found out) - all else being equal.
Limping Along: "where are all these other superb miners with huge hodls and impressive mining numbers?? Nowhere is the answer."
Limping Along, I would like to introduce you to Core Scientific, the beast of all of the miners. Mining circs 1100-1200 BTC, PER MONTH, currently averaging close to 40 BTC mined per day. Two to three days for them is the entire month for Argo.
Their HODL end of May: 8058. Operating with 9.2 EH running end of May, which is increasing to 16 EH by end of year. Also have another 8 EH of hosting revenue increasing to 16 EH by end of year and made several hundred million last year selling ASIC machines onto much smaller players in the space like Argo. Core's market cap today? A crazy $491m.
Apart from that your spot on, no sign of superb miners with huge hodls and impressive mining numbers.....if you also ignore Riot infrastructure, cleanspark's efficiency, Iris balance sheet, Mara's hodl, Hive's profit & loss or HUT with 7300 BTC, no debt, cash on balance sheet and mining twice as much as Argo....
Hexam, I don’t think I said ARB wouldn’t exhaust their hodl if needed, quite plainly if they needed to they would. Some of the less genuine sorts on here suggest that a lower hodl somehow puts ARB at greater risk, which as a numbers guy I’m sure you laugh at too when you look at the market now and consider the whole picture. BITF sold half of theirs already, MARA….well god knows what’s gonna happen there, CORZ desperately needs this to turn fast etc…
People need to take a wider view, but then that doesn’t suit their narrative does it?
ARB operates out of a state of the art, modern, 100% immersion facility that was always planned to be built in a modular fashion, limiting exposure to expensive equipment lying redundant and running on cheap sustainable power.
I see the risk greater on others personally.
Limp
Argo had many other options, but they chose to concentrate on massive infrastructure before mining rigs.
They could of replaced all the 3 year old s17 & t17 with new rigs instead of building out so much in one go at the expense of such a terrible low mining numbers for the last 6 months for starters.
When I have time this evening I'll work out how many btc were missed out on by not added the missing 100PH a year ago. ..
it will be over 100 btc I'm sure
“If argo had entered an arms race ,they would be sitting in a much better position with many more hundreds , possibly thousands of btc on their books today. To help them through this bear market in one piece.”
How FP, the facility has literally only just opened?! How would they have 100s and 1000s more btc if they had nowhere to deploy anymore machines?
They’d have ended up like Mara with a bunch of very expensive miners sitting in a crate doing nothing for months and months.
They have made it as clear as possible that they will expand, well within themselves, at the right time for the Company they run, not on someone else’s timeframe. Smart growth.
Limp - You made the statement that other miners "hodls will be exhausted just to keep the lights on".
I asked you why that didn't apply equally to ARB (given all the numbers/facts suggest otherwise - low HODL, losing money, debts backed by assets of reducing value, low efficiency) and you replied with nothing of substance and have now said the "current conditions are undoubtedly a big negative for everybody in this space." Agreed. So do you now agree that it does apply to ARB every bit as much as the rest. And if not, again the question, why not as would be delighted to know something that does puts ARB in a much better position than its peers.
"I look at the bigger picture, I’m delighted PW wasn’t tempted to enter an arms race,"
If argo had entered an arms race ,they would be sitting in a much better position with many more hundreds , possibly thousands of btc on their books today. To help them through this bear market in one piece.
Instead they have a massively oversized facility , which will be mainly empty for
years & quarters yet.
Not at all Hexam, the current conditions are undoubtedly a big negative for everybody in this space and indeed just about every other space across the markets.
I just don’t get frothy at the mouth and flap about it as there’s nothing we can do about it. The qualities that attracted me to ARB are still there today and I’m very confident given the cautious approach to date. Eyes wide open my friend.
In my view you clearly don’t or at least all you can see is anything positive. Anything negative or potentially negative seems completely hidden to you.
As do I Hexam, as I keep saying.
I am perfectly calm. I just have my eyes open.
Hexam, you get so wound up mate, just be calm. I know you are a numbers guy and that’s great as I’ve said many times before.
For me, I’m not sure how effective all these calculations are when you can’t see what’s going to happen tomorrow right now.
If you took historical snapshots of other very successful, big Companies in other areas of business you could no doubt find times where numbers look less favourable than at other times, it’s the way things work.
I look at the bigger picture, I’m delighted PW wasn’t tempted to enter an arms race, I think Helios is well thought out and ahead of its peers. I like the community engagement (much like Boeing in Seattle, Microsoft etc) it shows people they are here to stay not just pillage and leave. I very much like the focus on green energy, I like the regular investor updates (market space leading with that one), I like the involvement PW has in all things “this space” as he gets to see first hand what works and what doesn’t, and most importantly he’s run the Company in a manner that’s within itself, not overstretched, and with a good weather eye on where he’d like to take it in the future when conditions permit.
Onwards and upwards!
AB - My issue isn’t with the future. Like you I am still confident that in time Helios will, or at least can, be a differentiator.
It’s going to be at least six months before they really feel that though and the start, production wise, hasn’t exactly been encouraging.
In the meantime they are in a precarious position at the moment based on the facts we do know and possibly things we don’t know too as they evaded a lot of questions at the Q&A.
I know you recognise this and are are not happy with the current mining numbers etc. You are pinning your hopes on the future but not ignoring the present. Fair enough. I am too, just a lot less optimistically than you.
But some others seem to have their heads completely stuck in the sand.
The differentiator is Helios and the low power costs plus immersion overclocking, plus a focus on cost. However we haven't seen this yet as the may update was dire. Looking forward to next week's update. Hopefully they start unleashing the machines a bit more.
“Their hodls will be exhausted just to keep the lights on”
What makes you think ARB is any better position than the rest? The numbers you are so ready to dismiss as unimportant?
Do you have anything of any substance whatsoever to back that up?
It can’t be a bigger HODL than others. It can’t be that they are not exposed to sizeable debts that are backed by assets that have crashed in value. It can’t be because they are generating cash at the moment. It can’t be because they are more efficient.
So what on earth is it? Please enlighten us.
Outperforming its peers , by losing massively amounts of btc equivalents in argo labs.”
"This statement sums it up really. There’s no looking to the future with you lot is "there,
We are dealing with real time facts.... Not future hopes, based on so many variables outside of miners control.
But for any miner to be compounding their losses in a bear market by gambling & losing money in argo labs is reckless at best....
If btc is struggling, crypto will be struggling . That is a fact
And that’s the nub of it AB, if you think the future of a Company is worth investing in, then do it and be confident of that future. If you don’t, then don’t, but don’t waste your time posting about how awful you think it is, go find something you think is worthy of investment.
and if i didnt see a bleak future here I wouldnt continue either. Time keeps proving me correct and it keeps going lower.
I guess we can debate that again at 8-12p x;)
Good spot FP I underestimated the 'breakeven' capabilities of Argo Labs lol its gonna be a fun update next week.
ARB 8-12p
CHAE GLA X;)
If I didn't see a bright future I wouldn't be invested here. Time will prove me very right or very wrong.
“Outperforming its peers , by losing massively amounts of btc equivalents in argo labs.”
This statement sums it up really. There’s no looking to the future with you lot is there, finding other ways blockchain technology can be used effectively, keeping an eye on the future whilst operating in the now. How much do you think Boeing, Airbus, Tesla, Microsoft, Apple, Bosch and so and so on spend on R&D for the future? Smart growth!
"Typical Argo outperforming lol.
Where?"
Outperforming its peers , by losing massively amounts of btc equivalents in argo labs.