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Hi Agusta, I look at Norway with much interest - I think you are leading the way and this is where the rest of the world should be going. I agree with you about the fast charging - you can get away with charging a premium price per kWh, and I think this fast (rapid) charging is where AFC should concentrate their EV charging system, not in slow charging systems where the price per kWh is just the standard grid price.
I'm living in Norway where we have the highest percentage of electric cars on the road (11%) by a long long way. They are about to launch the first hydrogen powered cruise ship, and hydrogen powered lorries with hydrogen fuelling points around the country . not that these have anything to do with our particular market here...
At present the national grid can currently handle the number of cars, not forgetting that the power here is also 99% renewable, however I find looking at how they have planned their charging points here is interesting, and will no doubt be used as a guide to other countries adopting EV cars more and more.
Even with the number of electric cars on the road here, supermarkets and such have only a handful of EV parking spaces, though the number is always increasing and we have far fewer people here. There are many convenince spots, such as near to airports where people wait, popular stopping places when driving long distance, this of course would be motorway service stations for the U.K, the fast charging outlets are always priced at a premium, wherever you find them.
The idea of having them at building sites etc seems excellent, if the U.K government offer tax benefits or the like to companies using electric cars (as they have done here, and also for regular users), it is hugely beneficial for them to purchase these as company cars, having the AFC charging station on site would be excellent.
I'll have to read up now out of interest to see how far the U.K has come with the benefits of purchasing EV cars.
Put some ev chargers at airports and have like a meet and greet service were they charge your car ready for when you return.who wants to charge there cars when they have just arrived back
I think the other issue to remember TwoCents is that this is a scalable product. The new systems available next month are small, and are introducing the concept to suitable locations. As the systems that are released get larger so they will become suitable for more vehicles and charging speeds.
Fair enough. The company read sites like this and will hopefully deal with the issue if it is important.
I'm coming across as a bit pedantic, and that's probably because I am. I just think that if I, as an EV owner, can spot unrealistic figures in the Roadshow Brochure, then potential customers who know a lot more than me are going to spot it too.
Yes, I get what you are saying.
It would work if there were 100 spaces each with a fleet vehicle with it's own space and charge point and they were plugged in at staggered times during a day.
It would not work if it was a supermarket where lots of cars park in the space through the day and want to charge. Then the number of points supplied would be lower. They do say 25-100 depending on use.
rich list, a kW is a unit of power, so has time factored into it. Over a 24 hour period a 96kW plug will deliver 2304kWh. But you can only have 4.17 plugs if you're delivering 96kW to each plug. The more plugs, the less kW you're able to deliver to each, so at 25 - 100 plugs, you're no longer rapid charging with 400kW of generation capacity, and even with the additional 360kWh of storage it's not going help much with that number of plugs.
If I understand, the fuel cell will power a battery which gives the rapid charge and the 400 KW supply would supply 96 KW to each charge point over a 24 hour period.
If it was say an employee or fleet vehicle car park where the same car is in the space all day and might want to take 40 to 75 KW each for a full charge I think the sums work. They might need to plug them in at different times of day though or the battery would get flat.
I agree it doesn't sound right for a supermarket where lots of cars use the space and want a full charge for an hour each. It does say 25-100 depending on use.
Klunk, yes it will deliver me a rapid charge with that sort of capacity, but with so many charge points you assume there will be other EV's there charging too. My problem is the number of 'rapid' charge points they think each unit will service.
TwoCents, I agree the battery storage on the 400 is a bit underwhelming so maybe by June 2021 that capacity could be increased without an increase in footprint or even a different solution with additional batteries on smaller banks of chargers. After reading the brochure again I do agree that 100 is a bit of a stretch but would work well
In an office set up, charging cars while people are working or even a hotel set up charging cars overnight, a premium fee could be charged for anyone wanted a rapid charge.
Two Cents, sorry, I should have read further up the thread before replying. You have covered that issue with Mitch.
Two Cents? Are you assuming the electricity goes direct from the fuel cell to the car? It doesn’t. It goes into a battery before charging the vehicle. So that perhaps answers your concerns about charging only 4kW per charge point.
TwoCents ...At 72-288 kWh the MSP power pack should deliver a rapid charge ....and as your location is not visible on screen I made the assumption you where in the UK .
MitchConner, yes I get that. But even with only 9 'rapid' charge points of 50kW constant use there is only enough storage capacity for 7.2 hours on the 9th radid charger (8 x 50kW would fully take up the fuel cell generation capacity).
Klunk, yes they're supplied with clean renewable energy in my country because our grid is 88% renewable. My problem is they're called them 'rapid' charge points - off grid or not 'rapid' should be rapid.
Two Cents, they aren’t going to have 100 charge points in use all the time, there will be some latency between charges to allow the battery storage chance to recover, even at peak times it’s unlikely that all 100 points will be drawing at the same time.
TwoCents ....Are the Tesla superchargers off-grid ?....are they supplied with clean renewable energy ?
As an EV owner I have a problem with how many rapid chargers each unit will support. When I think of a rapid charger I think it should be at least 50kW, and as time goes on, even more. I have a Tesla, and our smallest superchargers are 120kW, and in the US they're now up to 360kW. I don't see how AFC expect to have up to 100 'rapid' charge points on a 400kW unit, that's only 4kW per charge point - I'd be there for nearly 19 hours to fill my 75kWh battery!
Sprog this Roadshow Brochure is very interesting. I've only seen this all today so have little knowledge. I'm struck by the sheer amount of storage in the H Power systems. Even the smallest L20, available next month, has enough for up to 7 rapid charges from zero (of, say, a 40 kWh Nissan Leaf), and that's without recharging. Next up the L160 will have 8 times the recharging power and so support up to 30 recharging points, and the L400+ available in June 2021 should have 20 times the recharging power and hence support "up to 100 recharging points" - all depending on the usage. These latter 2 in 40' containers. Read for yourselves, I may have misinterpreted: but this seems massive. A lot will depend on the pricing of course!
Bought in today. After such a rise it may of course get clobbered, so it's a small one. But I've been looking for a way to get into energy storage, which seems to me is going to be absolutely crucial. This has potential not only for using ammonia, which is easily transported and hence allows deserts etc to be used for power generation and transported anywhere in the world, but also for the membranes in VRFBs (Vanadium Redox Flow Batteries), which have huge potential for grid storage - IMHO!