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Hayward Tyler Group Share Chat (HAYT)



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Share Discussion for Hayward Tyler Group


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shareaction
Posts: 335
Opinion:No Opinion
Price:0.00
test
15 Nov '17
test
 
the_shareminator
Posts: 10,982
Opinion:No Opinion
Price:50.00
HAYT
25 Aug '17
Late £15k buy at 51p

Possibly mid 50s value equivalent one the AVG shares are distributed if this trend continues.

News of a settlement or completion of refinancing talks with the bank would help boost the market value. Expect that to come once AVG have completed the process of acquiring HAYT. Also expect to see a bullish H1 trading performance as our board had indicated was likely in the not so distant future. Now any increased order activity which may have been 'delayed' for want of a better word could be revealed. The cash-flow risks which will not be such a threat going forward may be addressed to ease market concerns also.
poole
Posts: 24
Opinion:No Opinion
Price:47.00
End Game?
22 Aug '17
Reports from Avingtrans and Hayward Tyler Group meeting say all resolutions carried by requisite majorities. Avingtrans share price has recovered to the level 238p when the offer was first made, but Hayward Tyler Group share price aat 47p still lags a bit. Seemingly only the Court to satisfy now for the merger to proceed.

Where next?For holders inclined to remain shares will hopefully be more marketable and while there ought to be scope for some further modest progress versus the market in this financial year it may be necessary to wait until the next financial year for a better rating.
the_shareminator
Posts: 10,982
Opinion:No Opinion
Price:47.00
AVG
21 Aug '17
Resistance is futile. Or at least it was in our case, nicely orchestrated to succeed before the approach was even revealed to private investors, by then many had sold down or moved on following the p*ss poor management of finances and the worsening risks..

So today we hear the deal is done and in 11 days we will receive our AVG shares. Somebody has duly dumped £24k today at a knock down price, possibly one of the rebels but more likely a 'third party' who bought stock to ensure the vote passed. Anyone selling now has to be crazy! Despite not liking this deal one would have to be blind not to see the positives from suring up the near term debt obligations and boosting free cash for increasing the rollout of orders and such. It's no surprise to see buys up to 49p sweeping up the leftover stock.
comeonvog
Posts: 5,794
Opinion:No Opinion
Price:44.50
RE: HAYT
18 Aug '17
Big late recorded sell from the 16th , or is it. this market is so crooked.
comeonvog
Posts: 5,794
Opinion:No Opinion
Price:44.50
RE: HAYT
18 Aug '17
the_shareminator , what am i missing here , can buy for around 44/45p . Just acquired some more yesterday.
the_shareminator
Posts: 10,982
Opinion:No Opinion
Price:45.00
HAYT
15 Aug '17
Hi flundra - today I cast my vote and elected to VOTE AGAINST. Like yourself I'm not holding out much hope that opposition will succeed given the lack of a banner to rally around, namely MC who do not initially endorse this approach.

We have confirmation now Ewan Wade Royston Lloyd-Baker will become a non-exec Director in the enlarged company and receive his bonus, whilst loyal shareholders continue to nurse losses built upon his poor forecasts and impaired vision concerning the financial predicament we now find ourselves in.

In 6 days there will be a court session and the likely result will see us posting on the AVG board thereafter.

The latest document suggests up to 30,706,123 ordinary shares of 5p at an issue price of approximately 245p will be admitted placing an estimated market value over the combined entity of £75m although with AVG trading lower it looks to be less currently.

HAYT being debt free, at least after balancing current assets and liabilities enables the company to pursue growth through investing more now cash-flow is not such an issue which is positive but it's a steep price we have paid in order to access this financing. Quite what else AVG bring to the party for the premium being paid I do not know. We can be hopeful at least that with better governance and improved cash-flow HAYT can grow at a quicker pace
flundra
Posts: 654
Opinion:No Opinion
Price:50.00
RE: Flundra
1 Aug '17
Hi shareminator
I’ve not read everything, but agree it would be wrong of ELB to accept this bonus if only because he’s going to AVG as a non-exec director. These bonuses are perhaps the HAYT directors’ golden parachutes, awarded to compensate for loss of their jobs on t/o or merger, but if he’s going straight into AVG on a full package as part and parcel of the deal he himself has cooked up, he absolutely should not accept a parachute bonus, even if technically contractually entitled. The same applies to any other HAYT directors taken on by AVG.
I also agree ELB’s done a lot wrong this past year, including re funding and forecasting, and of course selling for a price which fails to recognise the long term prospects. Hardly bonus territory.
I think I’m kind of resigned to this merger though now we’ve been told there’s no realistic way of sorting the debt pile. I would have participated in any open offer though.
The employees should be ok as the HTG business carries on, albeit as a subsidiary of AVG. They’ll be worried about redundancy because of the change I guess, but keep their employee rights. They might actually be more secure with AVG’s balance sheet behind them.
We’ve had precious little indication recently of the extent of the problems. Would ELB argue he’s released what he’s been obliged to and preserved value by preventing panic, enabling an orderly sale? – I don’t know.
Regards
the_shareminator
Posts: 10,982
Opinion:No Opinion
Price:50.00
Flundra
1 Aug '17
Just reading through these documents, have you read the Bonus letter?

"The Company shall pay the Agreed Sum to you (ELB) on the relevant Trigger Date.

For the purposes of this letter, the following defined terms are applicable:

Agreed Sum means an amount equivalent to the gross value of one year's basic salary at
the rate prevailing immediately prior to the Trigger Date"

This signed off by Nicholas Flanagan, well done those two! A further example of misusing their appointed positions but to be expected by 'big' men in this day and age. Do all the employees of HTG who contribute far more blood, sweat and tears receive a bonus equivalent to one years salary? It's terms like this that allow for circumstances such as the one we now find ourselves in. Ewan Lloyd Baker should not receive a penny in bonus terms given his list of failures over the past year, no financing solution except this proposed deal, prior to this poor forecasting, stiff interviews concealing the reality HAYT was likely to encounter this mess.
flundra
Posts: 654
Opinion:No Opinion
Price:48.50
Scheme doc
28 Jul '17
A lot of people have been saying it - looks like they were right...

P23 –

“Following discussions with RBS, the HTG Directors believe that a substantial equity placing would be required to secure long term financing from its lenders. There can be no certainty that such a fund raising can be completed and in the event that such a fund raising were successfully completed, the HTG Directors believe that this would likely be at a substantial discount to both the Closing Price on27July 2017 of 48.5pence and the implied value of HTG Shares under the Scheme of approximately 50.1 pence, resulting in significant dilution to HTG Shareholders”
flundra
Posts: 654
Opinion:No Opinion
Price:49.50
RE: HAYT
26 Jul '17
There'll be some HAYT/AVG arbitrage going on as well - trader's dream!
flundra
Posts: 654
Opinion:No Opinion
Price:49.50
RE: HAYT
26 Jul '17
Great post shareminator. I hope to read the AR shortly. Thanks for these comments, although my blood pressure’s probably gone up a few notches reading them. What a sorry end for a great company on the up.

Re the SP, it seems to have come back in the last couple of days from unexpected lows, like you say probably because for example we now have the Sept target date. All other things being equal I’d expect it to sit just below the merger price, like poole said to reflect the “risk” of merger not proceeding, and the market interpreting merger not proceeding as bad news. (We know better of course!). Merger price is of course a moving target being determined by formula referenced to the AVG SP.

No-voting Resistance fighters like myself may emerge in sufficient numbers to scupper the merger, a counter bid might still materialise, and there’s always the possibility of dial-moving news. Those scenarios could put the cat amongst the pigeons, but my best guess otherwise would be relative stability around current levels until merger.
the_shareminator
Posts: 10,982
Opinion:No Opinion
Price:47.00
RE: HAYT
25 Jul '17
Exactly, if you do read it though it will fill you with greater confidence about HAYTs H1 performance. There was a subtle point mentioned about £80m revenue on an annualised basis being achieved in H2 last year and that the out look for this year suggests growth on this. Coupled with that was mention of just were new revenue might come from and how Peter Brotherhood (which cost us £10.1m) is growing quickly and picking up the slack nicely. The gross profit generated is 3x that of HAYTs gross profit as a percentage of revenue. That acquisition and the investment in the Centre of Excellence alone amounts to the paltry value AVG offered. A company that employs more than 500 people globally across multiple sites on different continents with record order book and a long standing reputation. Voting down this offer will show the Boards we as shareholders do not wish to gift this investment away at ridiculous prices and they must seek alternative financing arrangements. Strike a refinancing deal with the banks, conduct another loan note if absolutely necessary. Raise the cash and go about turning round our fortunes. Where do you think the share price will go from here flundra, as we approach the vote?
flundra
Posts: 654
Opinion:No Opinion
Price:46.00
RE: HAYT
25 Jul '17
I haven’t read the AR, but we may never know what’s actually gone on with the banking saga. Similarly for the vote, I suspect information will be minimal, and timeframes short. All to gently ease through a yessssssss – trusssssssssssst meeeeeeeeeee.

It’s still NO from me though.
the_shareminator
Posts: 10,982
Opinion:No Opinion
Price:45.50
HAYT
25 Jul '17
Wow well there's an update, can't be sure who received the low down but clearly a leak this morning with increased buying activity. We have received an official date then, 1st September is the date at which AVG is expected to have completed it's acquisition of this company, implying a short time-frame of 36-37 days. The vote won't come a week before, they will need time to verify the votes and make the transition if the bid is successful so I would estimate early August perhaps. I couldn't see details in the Annual Report. I expect some who sold thinking this would drift lower will be disappointed, that was a nice buying opp 10% up on very little but expect those 36-37 days to go by quickly, especially when we receive notification of the voting day. GLA

Update on banking facilities

Further to the announcement of 30 June 2017 Hayward Tyler Group plc, the specialist engineering Company comprising the operating companies of Hayward Tyler and Peter Brotherhood, is pleased to announce that the repayment of £2.4 million of short term banking facilities and the annualised measurement of the financial covenants, have both been extended from 28 July to 1 September 2017, to coincide with the expected completion of the recommended acquisition by Avingtrans plc, as announced on 30 June 2017.
the_shareminator
Posts: 10,982
Opinion:No Opinion
Price:42.50
HAYT
25 Jul '17
Buys coming in now, ASK up to 48p
poole
Posts: 24
Opinion:No Opinion
Price:42.50
ANNUAL REPORT PUBLISHED
24 Jul '17
Annual Report of HAYT - 129 pages to read! -'Poised for Growth'
the_shareminator
Posts: 10,982
Opinion:No Opinion
Price:43.00
HAYT
21 Jul '17
PAYS up nicely on its proposed offer this morning and same sector SCH has benefited nicely. Quality investments, the like of which we all hoped HAYT would flourish into. Instead we are suffering from a low ball bid.

Just my opinion flundra but I think recent selling into low liquidity is just a sign of no forthcoming counter offer and the fact the bid was not for a set amount of cash but rather a ratio of AVG. The type of deal presented is advantageous to the AVG board (and those seated there post merger) as shareholders may exit prior to the completion of deal given risks involved here with financing. We have not heard any news regarding a counter offer or better looking results but equally rumours of worse than expected results is just a speculative. Lack of new orders does not mean order conversion is down and costs will be back in line with previous H1 norms I should think. To add to that the market seems subdued as a result of the current offer period and liklihood it will succeed in the absence of any shareholder activism or MC inspired counter offer. Maybe when a date for the vote and further details are provided we will see an uptick. Likely those in favour of the merger are collecting undertakings or assurances with the bigger players. I for one have made my peace with the merger now, despite my intention to vote against, such a merger will add stability here which is much needed. We expected the BoD to secure that for us but instead this is what we have. Such is the messy world of finance and corporate greed. Hopefully will pick up a few of these on the cheap in the next month or two
flundra
Posts: 654
Opinion:No Opinion
Price:43.00
RE: Been telling you...................
20 Jul '17
I quite agree the HAYT sp can be expected to hover a bit below the merger price to reflect the risk of merger not proceeding (all other things being equal), and it was doing this in the days post announcement.

I was thinking though that the subsequent fall of 10% on no new news required some particular explanation, because it’s such a significant fall.

I can’t see how any shareholder can vote yes with any conviction given the restricted newsflow. The picture now will be very different from March. I also wondered if sweeteners can be given to secure those irrevocable vote undertakings.

The balance sheet is perhaps stretched in the sense of “working hard” rather than stressed, but without updated figures and an explanation (which we’ve never had) for the long delay refinancing, we don’t really know.

My understanding from what the bod have said (until they went to ground) is that the strong H2 2017 performance anticipated in the half yearly report, happened/is happening, just the wrong side of 31 March! With all forward business pointers strong too. Order levels may not have been very exciting in Q1 calendar year 2017, but may well be flowing in superfast now.
poole
Posts: 24
Opinion:No Opinion
Price:43.00
RE: Been telling you...................
20 Jul '17
The HAYT SP is presently largely determined by the AVG SP which on its own is justified by its cash holdings and forward order book. That the HAYT SP is at a slight discount to the merger proposal terms principally reflects the risk the deal will not proceed for some reason. If one thinks the deal will be done and that looks likely then HAYT is essentially a cheap way into AVG. It is a good deal for AVG and once it is a done deal and the logic of the merger is better understood by the market (following brokers notes etc) the potential of the combined business ought to be reflected in a progressive improvement in the AVG price once the deal is completed.

I agree ELB did do a good job over the years but the BOD completely screwed things up big time on a number of fronts all at the same time over the last year or so. That HAYT's balance sheet was stretched was clearly a problem but less so if the required order intake and hence forward order book was in place. If it was then the BOD and the committed larger shareholders would I think not be supporting the present terms.

The HAYT preliminary figures claimed a record order book but that suggestion was due to the addition of Peter Brotherhood and in reality the order book was higher in early 2017 than at the end of March 2017. My reading is that they have been struggling to get the orders in otherwise we would have heard much more of them. Despite sterling weakness part of the problem appears to have been converting many OEM order prospects into orders in a timely manner or at all! Seemingly HAYT has been devoting additional resources to securing those or similar orders but that takes time. Meantime AVG has no certainty of HAYT short term revenue stream (or maybe it has via due diligence!) and has for its own shareholders to pitch its terms to reflect that.

I get the impression that many contributors to these threads have been there to make a turn and already done so but those (perhaps a minority) in for the longer term ought to do well relative to the current price by staying with the merged businesses.
flundra
Posts: 654
Opinion:No Opinion
Price:43.00
RE: Been telling you...................
20 Jul '17
I’ve been mulling over the possible reasons for the SP declining over recent days, away from the merger price. Might it indicate increasing doubt over the approaching merger proceeding? That could perhaps be because (good) financial figures might be leaking, or suspected, boosting the No vote? Or the prospect of a MC inspired counter bid receding? Or it might reflect lack of real news, and suspicion that’s because bad news is being suppressed, or concern the ship is rudderless. I suspect the prevailing market view will be pessimistic because many interpret the delayed refinancing as difficulty refinancing. A board shake up is inevitable if merger doesn’t happen, meaning more volatility.

PS I’m tempted to hold post-merger, for the reason you state, and because I like what I’ve seen of AVG so far anyway, even though right now (in the nicest possible way) I wish they’d b*gger off! I’d research AVG properly before selling, although have lost some confidence in ELB (who might get a board role). Generally he’s done a great job at HAYT over the years, but has dropped the ball this year imo.
the_shareminator
Posts: 10,982
Opinion:No Opinion
Price:43.00
RE: Been telling you...................
19 Jul '17
Flundra - I don't know if prior to the vote the company will be obligated to state its trading position, I would hope so for transparency but I fear we won't hear anything until the next trading statement.

You make an important point regarding deferred revenue and this should boost figures for the current trading period.

We haven't heard much about new orders recently, but like you I suspect we are well on course to meeting targets and improving the company's financial position

Let us not forget even if the deal succeeds we will later benefit when the improved trading position is eventually released to the market. Now is the time to accumulate and vote against, but if resistance is not enough then hold and reap the rewards of a combined AVG HTG entity
Schrodingerscats
Posts: 88
Opinion:No Opinion
Price:44.00
Been telling you..............
18 Jul '17
Traded out. Trading clln with next share being watched. Gla.
chanjael
Posts: 154
Opinion:No Opinion
Price:44.00
RE: Been telling you...................
17 Jul '17
spell check!! Meant Wanglii
chanjael
Posts: 154
Opinion:No Opinion
Price:44.00
RE: Been telling you...................
17 Jul '17
Wangle, I'm history on this blog my friend. Popped in to see how things were but I sold out at a shade under 48p. To be fair I bought in at 41/42p so not too shabby. Oh, for what it could have been though . . . . GLA




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