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Ispy obviously depending on whether he wants an agreement or not will determine if he attends. If he doesn't attend safe to say IMO the business will be getting split up and no going back.
@ telso.
Someone's getting humpy. Visiting the ACP board. There was another poster who did just that. You only make yourself look foolish. But carry on.
Of course you could do the job. Everyone can do it. But within your time. Nah!! Try it.
Well done, with your university, evening classes, extra jobs etc.
But you're are still here, liaising with a drunk, and getting the hump.
I not sure what should "sink in". Maybe i should have gone to university. Then i could understand the elite.
Ispy totally agree the management is much tighter with greater data and information. I guess that's why some found the new processes difficult to accept. Change can be very difficult for some to accept being monitored having to work the hours you are paid for etc etc
Great to hear some staff are getting acceptable pay deals and good for them. Just other RMG employees doing a different role, one you don't and know nothing about. Maybe you should give it a go I personally don't think you would last a month.
Its amazing all the agency that seem to come through the door are hopeless yet this was a route into the business for hundreds if not thousands of people. Maybe yet again you are just unlucky in your office and they send you the poor ones to wind you up.
Really showing your true colours now in the way you refer to your colleagues, you may not know what some of these people are going through and how striking may be the thing that breaks them.
So basically anyone that isn't cowed or bullied by the CWU and don't want to strike and can think for themselves are SCABS in your opinion. Have you said that to any of "these people" No thought not.
Also thanks for doing all that overtime and keeping the service going and the money coming into the business, hopefully some of the savings the business will make from the strike days can come back to you in the form of an increased rise or bonus so striking to eventually have a deal agreed and it will. So basically partly paid for by yourself to accept some changes.
I am sure most of us shareholders welcome what you are doing on the frontline including putting in those extra hours it does help the business to ensure we get our dividends and to help fund pay deals etc.
We shouldn't lose sight of that. Good job.
Thanks again.
@ wolvesposty.
I wonder if Thompson will turn up for the face to face meeting?
I would p**s my pants if he didn't.
I haven't seen if he's accepted this invitation.
I should ask someone to check workplace. He spends more time on there than in the office.
I strongly suggest you leave the " tinnies " alone.
I would probably struggle with both the prep and delivering a full round for a day or two, but within a week I would have the job of a Postman down cold. I guess you can call it lucky that I spent my younger days beyond university, working two jobs six days a week and complementing that with evening class most evenings for many years to attain various professional accreditations and practicing licenses.
I guess you're drowning your sorrows tonight, huh, whereas yesterday it probably all looked and felt so different right.
You're a bumbling fool, but I secretly hope you succeed with all your investment endeavours.
Enjoy. -
P.S ISPY - I posted this in the ACP thread as well, just so it sinks in.
page was too long to paste so read earliest first
It is hypocrisy of the highest order and rather than continue pointless negotiations, which the company themselves have disrespected and undermined from day one, and simply hope that something will change, as a consequence we have decided to call for this new dynamic in an effort to change the current impasse and enable an agreement to be reached. We stress once again the CWU have not walked away from talks and stand ready for meaningful negotiations and reaching agreements.
Your trade union totally respects you – all you have done and all you do. It is evident that your employer does not.
Your contribution to society is massive, you deserve far greater respect and reward and have every right to demand it – you have earnt that right. The CWU and its members have never lived life on our knees. Generations of postal workers have built and defended this great postal service and the terms and conditions for postal workers, it’s our time to stand again.
We thank everyone for their magnificent support and hard work. Both members and Reps have demonstrated that this great union does speak for its members and that Royal Mail Group have totally lost the trust, respect and confidence of their employees.
Vote yes, stand strong.
Any enquiries in relation to the content of this LTB should be addressed to the DGS(P) Department.
Yours sincerely,
Terry Pullinger
Deputy General Secretary (Postal)
Dave Ward
General Secretary
@ Anger.
When i say the CWU, i of course mean that it would have been put to the members, and probably accepted. I couldn't give you an actual figure for the "bonus" but generally 4 figures does it.
Negotiations on pay started in February. So, six months ago.
I've already said that Thompson had no intention of giving us anything else. If you remember, it was nothing initially.
He'd given all the money away to shareholders and managers.
Pathetic!
In April 2022 management tabled their position, which was no pay rise for all employees unless the union signed up to change demands which break the Pathway to Change agreement and its joint commitments and pose a major threat to the current workforce, the future generation of postal workers and the future of this great public service.
We have been in negotiations with Royal Mail Group for the past four months, during that time our members have returned a massive yes vote for industrial action on the rejection of RMG’s 2% imposed pay award (which is totally unacceptable). The CWU has given RMG weeks to listen to their employees and improve the pay offer, but they have refused to do so.
Equally, and judging by the excellent support being shown, we believe that our members will also return a massive yes vote for industrial action in rejection of RMG’s change demands. We have stressed that the business should listen to their employees and negotiate mutual interest change agreements consistent with the Pathway to Change agreement, but again they refuse to budge.
So nothing has changed the company’s position in these negotiations, there is no obvious latitude in the remit that the RMG negotiators have, hence the need to introduce a different dynamic.
RMG’s change demands have been widely publicised to its employees in detail and promoted by the company via their ‘workplace’ platform and other means. Therefore it should not be a surprise to anyone how damaging they are for RMG workers (including Parcelforce) and this great public service. For example, pulling up the ladder on the next generation of postal workers, lower pay, bringing back the 40hr week and introducing the cheapest possible pipeline resulting in pushing the operation back 3hrs and creating a pm only delivery service, are not the acts of progressive thinking of people committed to growing RMG, protecting the USO or the standard of living, employment and retirement security of its employees.
These proposals – ridiculously badged as modernisation, represent the same race to the bottom, asset stripping, shareholder interest only type proposals that currently dominate the world of work.
The reaction of our members to RMG’s position is evidence that the workforce is totally opposed to RMG’s future plans. In our opinion these change proposals represent the greatest threat we have seen since privatisation to our members, and future members, the great public that we serve and the future of this highly regarded public service.
Against that backdrop, it is also worth remembering when the company is pleading poverty, how many millions of pounds have gone out of this industry and into shareholders’ pockets – over £2 billion since privatisation and since 2021, and in the light of decisions made at the recent shareholder AGM, in excess of £600 million. Senior managers and board members have also received pay rises, bonus payments and been given extra shares during this period.
It is hypocrisy
an interesting read
Current Disputes Negotiation Summit Meeting Demand
We reported yesterday, via video, that we had made a significant move in order to try and bring a new dynamic to the current separate and systematic negotiations on Pay and Royal Mail Change demands, which in our opinion break the Pathway to Change agreement.
It is important that all CWU Reps and members understand that the CWU has not walked away from the negotiations but have requested that they are suspended until a high-level meeting takes place between the Royal Mail Group Board Chair, RMG CEO, CWU General Secretary and the CWU Deputy General Secretary Postal, all of whom were signatories to the Pathway to Change agreement.
It is also important that all CWU Reps and members understand that it is the CWU that has been pushing for constructive and progressive negotiations on all issues since January 2022.
The CWU insisted on a meeting in January 2022 to move forward the operational Pipeline section of the Pathway to Change agreement. Management tried to cancel this meeting and were reluctant for it to take place but the CWU insisted. At the closure of that meeting management promised to respond to a number of issues raised by the CWU and to supply the required information and response in order that negotiations could be progressed at pace. Management failed to supply that information or arrange another meeting.
In February 2022 the CWU, concerned by the emerging growing cost of living crisis, wrote to the business regarding our pay claim and stressed that it was important the company made an appropriate offer on pay, which protected our members’ standard of living, to be introduced on the 1st April to allow all of our members a chance of coping with the cost of living crisis. Management failed to respond in organising a pay meeting until April 2022, after the due pay award date.
Also in February 2022, at the same time as requesting pay talks, the CWU wrote to management regarding moving forward the Pathway to Change agreement and specifically issues such as revision activity and productivity. Again management failed to arrange a meeting to discuss this until April 2022.
In March 2022 the CWU, in anticipation that both parties were still honouring the Pathway to Change agreement, held a Policy Forum for all CWU activists (at great expense to the CWU) to establish policy on how we move forward the agreement, including matters such as seven day working, new products and services, culture, pipeline, the joint 35 hour working week commitment and other mutual interest solutions to the reinvention of Royal Mail Group, the protection of the USO and the future generation of postal workers. That Policy Forum resulted in a substantial document of ideas which was forwarded to management as a ‘heads up’ on our position on how we move the deployment of the Pathway to Change agreement forward. No response to that courtesy was received from management.
In April 2022 management tab
@ Merlwood.
"""Do not think the union is acting on your behalf. The top guys will still earn their £100K+ a year. You will get some form of rise I am sure, but not what the union is pushing for, and you will still be down for loss of earnings while on strike."""
We know their salaries. They negotiate for over 100,000 members.
We've already had a pay rise. Forced on us by executive action..
The union are pushing for an in line with inflation pay rise. At the time of request it was 5.5%. It's now 9%. The CWU would have accepted less, or even a one off bonus with the 2%.
Loss of earnings? I have built up a £700 strike fund, with two weeks still to go. That's about 8 days already paid for by RMG. While i think that the strike for pay may be resolved in a short period, the other strike will not. And i'll be saving my pennies courtesy of RMG overtime.
@ telso.
Thanks for reminding everyone that the postie role is unskilled.
I'd like to see you try it for a few weeks. In all sorts of weather.
While you are obviously superior to us mere posties, you still wouldn't be able to do the job.
(This is the point when you claim to have been a postie, as many do).
And while we are on the strike thread. One of the agency staff lost his van yesterday. Had to phone a manager who was at home, and he had to go out and help him find it. I think the poor bloke only had 8 items to deliver. These are the people that RMG are using for the strike days. And the scabs, of course.
@ JBT.
""""Of course why wouldn't they when the job was much easier. earlier finishes, unlimited overtime, covering ghost shifts, job and finish etc etc I was in amongst it and that is facts.""""
Surely, if this still goes on, then the COM's are at fault? All the data is at hand to "see" what posties are doing.
Despite their very generous pay rises since their new roles, and for the next two years already guaranteed, they still cannot manage.
A very sad indictment of where the company is heading.
Yes Grayling he made me laugh when he said he made 3 grand on Royal Mail shares he never posts when he bought them or when he sold them just says he made 3 grand biggest bulls hi—er on here
Sour grapes. As an investment RMG has thrashed he a**e of his darling RR over the past 3 years. Plus it pays a decent dividend, something RR has never really got the hang of. LOL
RMG should just implement a minimum wage rule for unskilled and entry level positions like Postman, in the future.
As minimum wage laws rise, so do their wages, if the union then has a problem they can take it up with the government.
Anyone who stays in an entry level position for an extended length of time, is either lazy or they're just working the system within the company and simply over-booking their hours.
What other incentive could there possibly be for sticking out an entry level job, year in year out.
fat fingers message sent before I finished. I was adding a bit about the cheap CWU house loans if you check the CWU accounts you will find 3 senior bods with loans maybe they deserve to use union dues for it and I am sure its just another case one rule for them..... I am fairly sure it was Francis O'Grady TUC who criticised it and instructed/advised it should stop.
I am happy to be invested and understand the risks.
ASharkz absolutely right re the global impacts but unfortunately human nature and to an extent greed kicks in. Am I as a shareholder being greedy I guess yes to a degree but for me it was about having a number of investments and income streams in my retirement. So IMO all RMG employees at whatever level have taken a risk and invested what they can to help them secure a better future for themselves and families.
I can understand why some employees are trying to look after their own interest first and an option is to get others to fight for you and IA is part and parcel of that.
I have said many times I have no major issue representing that is what they are paid for both in salary and benefits almost like the BOD and they have done a good job over the years. I guess that's why many would like to see reprivatisation. You just need to read the comments on the CWU FB page. One thing that I do find totally hypocritical of the CWU was the cheap home loans they gave out to their senior people. Not sure what the rate was but certainly much better than the high st. I wonder how many of their members would like a reduced mortgage rate, I am sure if they all apply a
Of course why wouldn't they when the job was much easier. earlier finishes, unlimited overtime, covering ghost shifts, job and finish etc etc I was in amongst it and that is facts.
The world has moved on.
Anger your right in your assumptions some of us can remember the last situation regarding inflation decades ago so as you say you will always get this disparity with salaries. if it was down to CWU they would want everyone on the same salary it’s called running a business for those on higher salaries ! Not that the union would agree
HH1AN2 I would be careful what you wish for as some of you may not be getting future pay , there are 2 sides to every story not just the CWU ,all this talk about the business earning this and that is what they want you to believe so both sides have to be realistic ! so if that means changes have to be made then both parties have to work at it Strikes are No good for anybody
It's not about a few days pay its about future pay and new, working practices that work..cwu worm for its members and I totally support that otherwise I wouldn't be in the union
I must admit to being a share holder and about 50% down on my investment, however you win some and lose sum, my decision. I also believe that everyone is entitled to a a fair wage and wish you luck in the negotiations, but let's look at the facts in the real world.
If I own my own company and my employees want an increase in salary, if I can afford it based on the comany's trading I will give it to them. If not they can decide to stay or leave on what I propose or leave, their choice. If they leave I will replace them.
Now if I am running a company on behalf of its share holders my priority has to be to my emplyers, those share holders.
If I allow such increases in salaries which will put that companyb in to a loss making situation, that will prove a dereliction of my duties.
If you do not get paid for ten days because you strike you will lose the equivalent of 3% of your income before you sart, which RMG will save.
Do not think the union is acting on your behalf. The top guys will still earn their £100K+ a year. You will get some form of rise I am sure, but not what the union is pushing for, and you will still be down for loss of earnings while on strike.
@ wolvesposty.
Thank you for that.
As an employee you clearly see where this is headed.
You're not alone. A lot of non-union staff have now joined up in my office. This includes "those people" who are now fully on board.
I still hope for a resolution on pay, firstly. And then it may pave the way for t's & c's.
@ Anger.
I pay the CWU to be a negotiating tool for me with RMG.
They could never act in a single persons interest. Unless of course it was a personal issue.
Read the pathway to change agreement.
There are a million things that RMG want. Negotiations with the CWU and then proposals put forward by the union, with a recommendation to accept. They will be satisfied that a best deal has been agreed. Not in this case.
Within that agreement was a stipulation that NO EXECUTIVE ACTION would be undertaken.
Now let me think. Has that agreement been broken within a year, and if so, by who?
The CWU are definitely acting in my best interest. If they said that these ludicrous proposals by Thompson and his cronies should be accepted, i'd be out of the union.
What you mean to say is the CWU is not acting in your best interests, financially. And nor is Thompson.
I decide whether or not i go on strike.
The government will soon be taking back RMG if these strikes go ahead. Funded by you, the taxpayer. How much do you think you'll get per share then?
anyway goodnight all i am sure we will get a settlement to suit all.....