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Does anyone kindly know if the employees pensions be affected by this administration?
Pbody- no one has stated investors will get anything back from IRV going into administration, you aregetting confused again. The shareholder compensation discussion relates to the FCA investigation which is totally unrelated to the the administration, related to Market disclosure from IRV back in late 2016- early 2017. Obviously those who invested after this date or recently cannot expect anything if something does materialise from it, since they were aware of all the facts before they invested. It will only affect people who bought between August 2016 - February 2017 which is likely to be only a handful of investors, so any compensation if awarded will NOT be for the full 150m shares in issue, more like 30m. Remember it only impacts people that bought within that period based on what they were told from BOD, so those who were already holding at the time will unfortunately not be entitled to anything either.
That is not meant as a jibe.
It reads like it.
I some ways I am tempted to get a premium account.
Having time to read everything and/or message or alert on here is awkward.
Especially if you not at a pc all day or have something else on.
Thanks for explanations. Info as I didn't have any shares here.
Watch for others in the sector taking a dive in SP as fear takes the driving seat.......
HeresHopin,
We seem to be going around in circles here!
The statement of mine that you challenged was:
"The IRV shares are not being cancelled until Wednesday. This is probably to allow late trades to go through, as it usually takes 3 days for a trade to complete."
I know that the shares have been suspended, the question is when are they actually removed from the share index? The reason that this is important is that if the shares are immediately cancelled, the trades made on Friday will not complete, and brokers may refuse to honour them, as some did when Carillion collapsed.
So far answers to that have been 15th March, 18th March and 20th March.
RNS
Interserve (UK): Constituent Deletion
Index --------------------------- Effective From Start of Trading
FTSE Fledgling Index ----- 20 March 2019
FTSE All-Small Index ------ 20 March 2019
Thanks again Kenj for your patients.
I understand the prepack administration better now. People will be able to turn up to work on Monday as usual.
What would have been the total worth of contracts and assets owned by Interserve?
Had they been able to "set their stall out"
I suppose we have a sector knock on effect to deal with next.....on top of brexit.....
Similar to Carillion in that respect......
"this might not be exactly what's happening, but it was what should happen when a company goes into administration. As far as I am aware.
One bidder in an auction....makes for a low price."
Pbody,
You are confusing Administration with the completely different Pre-Pack Administration.
The clue is in the name, the deal has been pre packaged before the court formally appoints the administrator. It is not an auction, it is just a quick way to sell off a company that faces imminent insolvency, without letting the company collapse.
Thanks KenJ, Hereshopin and others. These messages were not intended to confuse the issues.
I didn't read any RNS lately regarding Interserve nor did I hold any shares (before you ask I planned to read them after a deal had been agreed). To me its flogging a dead horse..
The music stopped and there weren't enough chairs........
I just read the message of Laustin. Saw confusion, I gave a generic "in administration" response.
Thought he(she?) must be wondering what chance is there of getting any money back with going into administration.
There are lost of posts about Investigations and compensations.
Someone reading this new to it all and caught out could think there is a chance of getting some money back.
I DOUBT IT VERY VERY MUCH.
Laustin this might not be exactly what's happening, but it was what should happen when a company goes into administration. As far as I am aware.
One bidder in an auction....makes for a low price.
They may get a better price by selling off each part of the business or contracts off to interested parties.
Perhaps they feel selling all to one contractor and having all the people just turning up to work on Monday (or Sunday for that matter!) is more important than having 10 or 20 firms bidding away for the work they have and getting more money back. Some contracts could be put out to tender anew and line drawn.
Hard to say.
The "administration team" run to extract maximum value not ease of continuation could be a route to take.
If your looking at what is "not quite right" for shareholders.
Thanks Kenj agree with Pete it would make sense for shareholders at the time to be compensated not only because I bought in at the time, but to set an example to other companies.
Otherwise we will see this happening more often where companies will lie through their teeth, suck investors in and re-emerge as a new company on a Monday morning. This will make the stock market uninvestsble
I calculated £300M back in 2017 for the EFW liabilities and the BOD and EY must have been aware, the reports from IRV were just about half of this.
I hope the FCA has some teeth and shareholders at the time are compensated - but I guess the result will be ziltch, another smudge-over!
Thanks for the link BillTucker89,
The directors have a responsibility to release news accurately, and in a timely manner. The FCA obviously feel that they have failed to do this, and this can lead to investors making investment decisions without knowing the full facts. The company and the individual directors can be fined if found guilty of this. I doubt that existing shareholders would be paid any compensation, but who knows? It might happen, but rather unlikely imo. If the FCA investigations are anything like the SFO ones it could take years to be resolved.
Kenj have a read of this for the context. Basically FCA are investigating the fact that IRV passed on a lot less to the Market then they knew about EFW.
https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.proactiveinvestors.co.uk/companies/amp/news/196818
"You are mis-reading that RNS I think Kenj."
So what exactly is the latest RNS saying then, HeresHopin?
BillTucker89,
I do not think that changing the company name and converting into a private company, absolves you from any crimes or misdemeanors committed by the original company. I know little about the EfW contracts, but as far as I understand it, this was just a poor decision by the management of IRV which lost the company money. Lots of boards make bad decisions which lose their shareholders money. Unless deliberate fraud can be proved, I don't see shareholders receiving any compensation.
Interesting point Kenj. So if as you say the company has been sold, what happens around the FCA investigation around EFW? Will that be suspended or continue and a relevant fine/shareholder compensation posed, or was IRV liable for that?
From the last RNS
Index --------------------- Effective From Start of Trading
FTSE Fledgling Index 20 March 2019
FTSE All-Small Index 20 March 2019
Pbody,
You really need to read the RNS's!
The company is not in administration, as Illbetabuck has said, it has been sold. The administration process has been completed and shareholders will receive nothing.
Illbetabuck,
The IRV shares are not being cancelled until Wednesday. This is probably to allow late trades to go through, as it usually takes 3 days for a trade to complete.
Lots of warnings, all ignored. All these PI's moaning that they have been shafted, well most of them couldn't be bothered to vote for the refinancing last spring, couldn't be bothered to block the 125% bonus at the AGM last summer. And quite frankly most of them couldn't be bothered to attend Fridays meeting. Sorry, but they have little to complain about.
Chances are you wont get any money back.
What should happen now.
As the firm still exists (is in administration) but has stopped trading.
An administration team should be appointed to sell the contracts off and any other assets.
The BoD will not be a part of this (apart from maybe some staff on the financial side).
The administrators will probably be the last group used to carry out the financial audit that took place a year or so ago as they will be familiar with company and have already have a good idea of whats what and be VERY cost effective..
Once all the money is in and there is nothing left to sell, the money will be used to pay the debts, starting with the direct debts owed by the firm (including paying the administrators).
It will be wide ranging from contractors or material suppliers that are owed money down to the loans taken out..
If there is any money left from that, the remainder will be used to pay corporate bond holders (if there any issued).
If after that there is any money left. Then the shareholders get their turn.
Usually there isn't enough money to pay all the debtors.
They normally have to accept a percentage back of what they are owed.
So the chance of bondholders getting some back is slim.
The chance of shareholder getting any, even slimmer.
That's a simple breakdown as I understand it.
I hope it helps you understand where a shareholder fits in "in the que".
He isn't called "Bond" for nothing.
Dont ask me about the 007 part.
nobody forced them to buy plenty of warnings.
Unfortunately, no...IRV no longer exists.
Hi, in the mist of novice opinions & guesswork, your posts are a refreshing change on this site !.
Hi Billtucker89 . . . thanks for explaining. . if I'm honest I'm guns rest my hopes on Coltrane having next move then !! This has been a very very hard pill to swallow. . .just gone from bad to worse and a very large investment has just gone in the wind
Laustin- I doubt is very much since the IRV no longer exists, though we can wait to see what Coltrane’s next move is. Only the IIs have the knowledge and power to initiate such claims.
Morning All,
It is a hard time for all investors here. . is there a possibility shareholders can claim against the company to try get SOME money back.
IRV holders were lucky enough to cash in after Carillion went tits up so don’t blame anybody for not selling up. 95% of listed companies are a Ponzi scheme which is allowed to continue because it creates jobs. Private investors are supporting excessive board pay and staff pay and pension.